Point made and point well taken... on to November!

Posted by GM Roper at May 21, 2006 09:08 AM

So... We really don't care if we have a moron in office, as long as its a Republican moron?

By the way, check out the new Baghdad ER on HBO. Pretty good. Shows lots of young boys having their limbs amputated. About 18,000 soldiers wounded in Iraq and 2500 dead. Pretty good stuff Mr. Bush! But of course, we needed to get those WMD's and put a stop to terrorism...even though no terrorists from Iraq have ever attacked the U.S.

I look forward to the next two years. Dubya has successfully turned a great deal of America against the Republican party. I can't wait to see what he's got in store next!

Posted by mike at May 21, 2006 07:32 PM

Mike-
I'm not surprised that someone like you would enjoy watching a one-sided mockumentary about wounded Soldiers, that purposely avoids what they are fighting for, and exploits them for nefarious purposes.
Your hatred and envy are clearly evident.
You are not worthy to shine the boots of those Heroes.
Why don't you crawl back in the swamp, with the rest of the leeches?

Posted by Ben USN (Ret) at May 21, 2006 09:20 PM

I'd rather have a Republican moron than a Democratic traitor

Posted by Woody at May 21, 2006 10:42 PM

Ben--

Someone like me? You don't even know who I am. First of all, I am a veteran of the Gulf War. I've been in combat. Second of all, I proudly support our troops. Wake up brother- a LOT of veterans do not support the Iraqi war.

Typical... I say I don't support the Iraqi war and you turn it into some "I don't support our troops" bull. That's the first thing Republicans do now, because going for my jugular is the only thing you can do after 250 billion dollars, 18,000 wounded and no end in sight. You can't really defend the war, can you?

The documentary was obviously authorized by the Army, since they were in an Army hospital in Iraq. So I guess the Army is exploiting their own soldiers, huh?

Another true believer... No matter what that idiot we have in office does, you are going to stick by him.

Well, as a Republican and a Veteran, I think he sucks. I am actually intelligent to admit that, even as a conservative, I know when we have a liar and a criminal in office. Now, Dubya has SCREWED IT UP for a real president to take office, like John McCain. The whole country is going to end up voting Democratic after the bad taste that Dubya left in this country's mouth. HE IS DETRIMENTAL to the conservative cause.

I'd ask you to shine the Iraqi soil of my combat boots, but YOU aren't worthy.

Mike

Posted by mike at May 22, 2006 09:08 AM

Man, the more I look at your post Ben, the more it pisses me off. I just noticed that you're a Navy Boy? I walked through sand, carrying a gun, saw blood and violence that I still haven't gotten over... And I get criticized by a guy who sat on a ship, eating steak dinners?

The Navy. I can't even believe you have the balls to say anything. You don't even know what combat is. When it comes to opinions on the Iraqi war, you can listen to this Iraqi veteran's opinion, but don't give me yours. You ain't shit.

Semper Fi.

Posted by mike at May 22, 2006 10:07 AM

Mike, it's fine to be proud of your military branch, but all branches serve the same country and are entitled to respect.

Posted by Woody at May 22, 2006 10:40 AM

You are right Woody. I've never criticized any soldier / branch. It's just that...this guy started by name-calling me (a leech, whatever the hell that means) and he doesn't even know who I am.

He said that I was "envious" of soldiers, that I hated them and that I wasn't worthy of shining their boots. If he were in front of me, he would be missing teeth right now.

The thing is, I never saw any Navy uniforms when I was fighting. So...I don't want some Navy guy throwing disrespect my way when I fought for this country and ate shit-food out of my pack, while Navy soldiers sat in comfort and safety and are fed like kings. But I do respect anyone who volunteers- just not this guy. He spouts out hatred without even knowing who he's talking to.

And yes...food is pretty important to me, if you can't tell.

Posted by mike at May 22, 2006 11:05 AM

Guys, calm down, I don't mind severe arguments, but calling names needs to cease.

As an Army Vet (who did not serve in combat) but did counsel a lot of combat vets (and still do for that matter) ANY troop who is in danger from what ever the source is a hero to me.

Ease up please.

Posted by GM Roper at May 22, 2006 03:38 PM

Sorry about that GM. But all I did was post my opinion and I get insulted beyond belief by this guy. As you can see, he posted hateful remarks towards me- a veteran of the Gulf War. I saw terrible things and still suffer nightmares. Nobody should talk to me that way.

I'll ease up. I'll just avoid "Ben."

Stay healthy.

Posted by mike at May 22, 2006 03:56 PM

Mike you, like Ben, are always welcome here. This is a conservative blog, and I make no bones about it. I have also become disenchanted with Bush and the Republicans, but I'll vote conservative anyway, even if that means voting for a few Republicans ;-).

I'm still not convinced that WMD's didn't exist, and I know about searching... not having found any does not disprove existance any more than finding yellow cake proves he was working on a nuclear device. It highly suggests it, but doesn't prove it, at any rate, Saddam went to great lengths to keep the world thinking he had them. If that was subterfuge, he goofed didn't he.

As to the war, I supported it then, and now. Not for the reasons you might think, but because I really believe that there are islamofascists out there who will stop at nothing to kill me, you and our children. I do think that now with a constitutional republic in Iraq, they need to shoulder more of the burden and I think you and the other heroes that liberated Kuwait and Iraq have done far more good than anyone can ever know.

As to the nightmares, may I suggest you look up a counselor trained in trauma resolution. I have used it many times with ptsd victims over the last 15 years and it works. I can't and won't counsel over the internet, but send me an email to gmroper@gmroper.com or gmroper@gmroper.mu.nu and I'll explain why the nightmares reoccur and what the mechanism is that keeps it fresh in your memory. No one shouldhave to live with that kind of trauma.

Ben, I love you, but please lay off the vet. Mike, I love you too and don't be too sensitive to other points of view or hyperbole.

Everyone, let's try to keep the discussion to issues and not personalities.... The grand poo-bah has spoken!

Posted by GM Roper at May 22, 2006 05:43 PM

GM- I've tried counseling, but the first thing they always tell me is that I have to stop drinking beer. (After I tell them that a 12 pack is the best way for me to sleep soundly.)

So it never works out...

Do you think I can find a beer-friendly shrink?

The last guy gave me sleeping pills and said that I wouldn't remember my dreams. He was wrong. Instead, I just couldn't wake up from them. That was nice.

I've got the post-traumatic stress, but I don't hallucinate in broad daylight or ever dream of sniping people from a water tower or anything like that. Ya know, I'm just angry all of the time and have horrible nightmares.

I watched my close friend "bleed out" in 110 degree heat after having his leg blown apart by large calibur rounds. I was only 19. Well, I didn't really "watch", I actually got to participate! Fun stuff! I tried to hold his blood in while my fellow marine cried like a baby, because he knew he was bleeding out. That'll mess up your mind for life...

Posted by mike at May 23, 2006 12:04 AM

* gulp *

Here's to you, Corporal.

Name edited per request by commenter.

Posted by mike at May 23, 2006 12:08 AM

You know what GM? Even though I JUST posted that last comment, could you delete it? Or just delete his name? Just make it Corporal.

I don't want to upset his family or someone that may stumble upon this. I shouldn't have used his name.

Posted by mike at May 23, 2006 12:09 AM

Mike-
Here is what you said that pissed me off:
By the way, check out the new Baghdad ER on HBO.
Pretty good. Shows lots of young boys having their limbs amputated.
About 18,000 soldiers wounded in Iraq, 2,500 dead.
Pretty good stuff.

It'spretty good stuff? Soldiers getting wounded?
What is anyone supposed to think about that statement?
Why would a veteran like you say such a thing?
You know what I think is pretty good stuff? Soldiers, Marines,
Sailors (SEALs, SEABEES, Corpsmen on the ground) and Airmen re-enlisting to go back to Iraq to finish the job!
Countless acts of heroism and goodwill by those same brave Warriors, that HBO, and the MSM refuse to talk about!

I apologize for calling you a leech. My anger got the best of me, and I was wrong to say that.
I do wish you would explain your comment.

PS I'm not going to brag about the fires and flooding I fought out at sea, or the minefields I sailed through, the storms that I've been in (and almost sunk in, once), or gettig shot at by Iranians (that we blew the hell out of). Because thousands of sailors have been through that, and much worse (remember the USS Stark and USS Cole?).
As for eating steak dinners every night, I wish!

Posted by Ben USN (Ret) at May 23, 2006 12:53 AM

What I meant, when I said, "pretty good stuff", was sarcasm. It was horrible stuff. I cried when I watched it. My wife sat next to me and she cried. They didn't censor a thing, dicks flopping around while the doctor sawed through legs and carried limbs into garbage bags. Men screaming in pain... Field medics (who you'd think would be used to this), crying as they carried in a wounded soldier. I wouldn't even call it a documentary. There was no narration, except the soldiers themselves. Just a camera wondering around Baghdad ER...

"Pretty good stuff" was extreme sarcasm. I am angry that those boys are STILL over there suffering. I was under the impression that we were going in to recover WMDs and then get out- like the rest of the U.S.

Anyway, I apologize also. I shouldn't have implied that the Navy doesn't fight in combat or that your branch was less important than mine. It's just that when you said I was envious of the soldiers...I didn't know what that could have possibly meant.

You truly thought that I thought suffering soldiers was "good stuff", but Woody responded shortly after you did and he didn't mention it. He recognized the sarcasm.

Regarding the food: I had a buddy that served (in peacetime) in the Navy. All he could talk about was how good the food was on the ship. He said that they had "lobster night" one day per month. He could have been messing with me, but I highly doubt it. He's a guy that doesn't bullshit around.

Anyway, let's just forgive and forget and forge ahead.

Posted by mike1971 at May 23, 2006 08:24 AM

And thanks for sailing through those minefields. I wasn't trying to brag either, that's why I didn't mention my combat experience until you told me I wasn't worthy of shining their shoes. To tell you the truth, I never mention it to anyone. This has been kind of theraputic in a way.

Posted by mike1971 at May 23, 2006 08:26 AM

Oh... One last thing: I didn't think this documentary was one-sided at all. I think it showed heroism at its greatest. Heroic doctors, heroic chaplains in the E.R. and heroic injured men. There was no slant for the war or against the war. Of course, if you are anti-war, (like me) you are going to look at it as an anti-war film.

If you are pro-Iraqi war, you will watch it and say look how good these men are! Holy shit. One of them came in with, what looked like a mangled burned hand, I think they said they removed his thumb and he was fighting again 4 days later. It could easily be viewed as a film about heroes.

Like I said, no narration- no opinions. The only words spoken were that of soldiers.

I think every single American should be forced to watch it. But, since I can't do that, I will just ask that everyone PLEASE try to catch it on HBO.

Posted by mike1971 at May 23, 2006 08:38 AM