It reminds me of inquisition in Spain during the reconquista. Of course, this was a completely opposite case to that of CAIR's today. In those days, converted Jewish put bacon on their doors to demonstrate that they were already Catholic.

I can hardly live with any kind of religious fanaticism.

By the way, I fail to send trackbacks. Do you use Wizbang, or Halo Scan?

Posted by Shah Alexander at April 11, 2007 08:43 AM

Sounds like they're trying to turn littering into a hate crime. If flag buring, piss Christ, chocolate Christ are legally acceptable, why not this? Is it because Christians are much less likely to set off bombs and otherwise try to kill you?

Posted by DADvocate at April 11, 2007 09:33 AM

If flag buring, piss Christ, chocolate Christ are legally acceptable, why not this?

Had someone wrapped a Koran in bacon and called it 'art' and displayed it in a museum then it probably would be legally acceptable. But I assure you that someone wiping dung on a crucifix and leaving it on the steps of a Catholic church would equally be considered a hate crime.

Posted by e. nonee moose at April 11, 2007 03:37 PM

e. nonee moose, you really are clueless. Do you honestly believe it would be acceptable to wrap a Koran in bacon at any time for any reason? Tell you what, why don't you head over to the local Mosque and stand outside with your bacon-wrapped Koran and yell "art." Make sure you bring a photographer, because you might not live to tell us about it.

Posted by Ogre at April 11, 2007 04:48 PM

Ogre,
Touchee! [tooshay]

Posted by Always On Watch at April 11, 2007 06:07 PM

mmm, bacon...

Posted by Assistant Village Idiot at April 11, 2007 06:29 PM

If bacon is a crime, a side order of hash browns is probably a felony.

Posted by Cappy at April 11, 2007 06:41 PM

Yet another example of why we are hated. Though bacon seems like nothing, it is a SYMBOL. Look that up, knucle-draggers.
I liken it to New Mexico Gov. Bill Richardson who recently told Jon Stewart he almost blew negotiations in Iraq because he crossed his feet, inadvertatly showing Saddam the soles of his feet. Seems silly, but Saddam apparently left the room and things almost fell apart.
I also recall a big furor over some 'death metal' bands using upside down crosses on album art and in stage shows. Christians were very upset. Why? It's just a symbol.

Posted by bishopdic at April 11, 2007 07:20 PM

bishopdic the problem is Muslims are becoming TOO overly sensitive to every little incident. I've had Bibles with glued on upside down crosses left in my mailbox(...and I'm not a religious person...) my brother is however..and he wasn't offended. In fact he simply forgave whoever it was that did it.

What ever happened to the old thought that if you ignore the silly things like this, the people seeking your attention will get bored and move on? By calling attention to these foolish antics, Muslims are just making FOOLS out of themselves, really.

A hate crime? Hardly. More like a prank. That should be treated as such. Symbols are often used in pranks and we need to learn to GROW UP and stop reacting to this stuff. Muslims need some thicker skin.

Posted by Raven at April 11, 2007 08:21 PM

Why we are hated? Are you kidding, bishopdic? That's like saying that the Brits were captured because Porky Pig cartoons were witnessed in Tehran. Besides, did you notice that when Iraq had its election the turnout, by percentage, was better than in America, and they did it under threat of death? When it comes to the radicals, we ought to dip our bullets in bacon grease. Hate crime? Ha ha ha, look, smothering the Qur'an in bacon is nothing compared to 3,000 plus lives snuffed out on 9/11. Please.

Posted by Douglas V. Gibbs at April 11, 2007 08:40 PM

'Yet another example of why we are hated.' We are not hated by Muslims, they believe we are below them and are meant to be enslaved by them and converted by them and ultimately bread out by them. They make noise about the Koran desecration not because they are offended (who really cares if they are offended?) but because they know the weak in the west will become appeasers and help them accomplish their goal.

They don’t hate us, they fear us and our life style and use religion as a simple target. Me, they fear me. I speak their language and they get the message. They are weak cowards that can only fight with terror against the innocent. Sounds familiar ?

Your local knuckle-dragger

Posted by Michael at April 11, 2007 10:08 PM

Bishop"dic" ( so you are only a bishop? I think I know the fellow that is the cardinal in your church of secular dicness), a book is a book is a book. Whether a Playboy, koran or a Bible it only has the value we give it. Believe me, I certainly value a Playboy (or most any nudie mag) above the koran, as do most folks I know, I am sure.

Throwing a hissy fit because someone placed some "forbidden" item on some "holy" item (especially as common as a book) is juvenile and sadly comedic. It's not like someone went and pissed on mohammeds grave (note to self:go to mecca).

The facxt that you threw just as juvenile and sadly comedic fit as the muzzies shows where your true loyalties lie.

Posted by kender at April 11, 2007 10:22 PM

Yet another example of why we are hated. Though bacon seems like nothing, it is a SYMBOL. Look that up, knucle-draggers. I liken it to New Mexico Gov. Bill Richardson who recently told Jon Stewart he almost blew negotiations in Iraq because he crossed his feet, inadvertatly showing Saddam the soles of his feet.

"Almost blew?" As I recall, nothing much came of those negotiations, but I'll make sure to ask Saddam when I have a chance.

Seems silly, but Saddam apparently left the room and things almost fell apart.

Or maybe he just realized that he was late for a mass execution.

So this is "why we're hated?"

This is a perfectly valid explanation, as far as you're concerned, why they murdered 3,000 innocents on 9/11? This is more than enough reason for them to wage war on us for decades?

You, you twit, are an imbecile studying to be a moron and failing utterly in the process.

I also recall a big furor over some 'death metal' bands using upside down crosses on album art and in stage shows. Christians were very upset. Why? It's just a symbol.

And did the Christians declare jihad and start flying airliners into buildings or blow up heavy metal concerts with heavy explosives strapped to suicide bombers? Did the Christians charge the metal bands with a "hate crime" and call the cops on them? Did the Christians, in fact, do anything other than express their displeasure as is their right in a free society?

Take your moral equivalence and shove it where your waste products exit the sad waste of perfectly good skin that is your body, kiddo.

Posted by Misha I at April 11, 2007 11:13 PM

I also recall a big furor over some 'death metal' bands using upside down crosses on album art and in stage shows. Christians were very upset. Why? It's just a symbol.

103 people didn't die and no embassies were burned tro the ground.

Yeah, Christian outrage is SO much worse....

Posted by Sonnabend at April 12, 2007 02:23 AM

bishopdic should watch this.

Evan gets to the 'this is why we hate us' meme; the fact is, people like bishopdic believe in elevating all that is failed, and attack all that is good, so everything meets in the middle and there's nothing left to fight over. It's really a 5-year-old mentality. Don't hit, talk. Let's SHARE everything. The thing is, that most of us move past the 5-year old thought process when we learn new things.

Take a look at pictures from Saddam's chemical attacks on the Kurds and ask yourself did he really have WMD? He used them on his own people. And second, what kind of monster would think that Hitler didn't go far enough? That is, after all, why he had a copy of arabic mein kempf in his back pocket.

In order to 'not discriminate', we need to make ourselves completely stupid. At airports, we need to ignore that which we already know; for example, that the 19 hijackers were all muslims yelling allah akbar!. We have to keep repeating to ourselves like blind bishopdic, that the little 75-year old swedish grandmother in a wheelchair s just as capable of hijacking an airplane as the 7 imams newly arrived from Syria yelling allah akbar, praising Bin Laden, complaining about the fall of Saddam Hussein and asking for seat belt extensions when they don't need them (they can be used as a weapon).

bishopdic, you seem to be a fairly good example of why we should home school our children, and delay as long as possible anyone entering the leftist indoctrination process.

Posted by Cao at April 12, 2007 03:54 AM

Tell you what, why don't you head over to the local Mosque and stand outside with your bacon-wrapped Koran and yell "art."

If I wrapped a Koran in bacon and put it on display in an art gallery then it would draw the same amount of ire that "Piss Christ" drew. It would be extremely controversial and maybe I'd have to take it down eventually (and get a few death threats as well) but it WOULD NOT BE A HATE CRIME and even CAIR would know that.

BTW, does anybody here think the 'Piss Christ' guy didn't get death threats? Wake up... Fundamentalist Christians are perfectly capable of behaving just as badly as fundamentalist Muslims. The problem isn't Christianity or Islam... the problem is FUNDAMENTALISM.

Posted by e. nonee moose at April 12, 2007 07:20 AM

Bishopdic,

To think that you are trying to equate Christian "outrage" to Muslim "outrage" tells me you understand neither.

I've lived in the Middle East among Muslims - Oman, Saudi Arabia, Kuwait. I went to college in the buckle of the Bible Belt at Baylor in Texas.

Let me tell you something, you have no idea what you are talking about when it comes to the response, the ferocity, and the violence that a Muslim will demonstrate when you offend their religion compared to a Christian.

Lemme suggest a test of your reasoning, young man. Take a Bible and a Koran to city hall in Dearborne, MI and urinate on both. Call it art. And then, see who comes for your head. The possible result should be obvious even to you. Thereby making your point about death metal music completely moot.

Bacon is not a symbol to Muslims. It has no true religious symbolism anywhere in Koran. It is a cultural consideration to many peoples and religions in the Middle East. Don't confuse anthropology with theology.

Speaking of knuckle-draggers, in this case it definitely takes one to know one.

Posted by jcrue at April 12, 2007 07:39 AM

Sir:

Has it occurred to you that:

1) CAIR may well be the organization that placed this "deserated" Koran there--just so they could generate this "outrage". During the Hezbollah-Isreal skirmishes last year, this sort of this occrred quite frequently, with muslims staging false "news" photos using the same actors and placing Korans in "compromised" situations due to the "evil" Israeli bombings.

2) If you will recall the whole hysteria about Gitmo guards supposedly flushing the Koran down the toilet, did you ever actually try flushing ANY book down a toilet yourself? Give it a shot. Thinnest book you can find. Then tell me how the Islamist killers claims that our own military did this (especially considering their orders are 180 degrees to the contrary.

3) CAIR has one mission: to be the Rainbow/PUSH Jesse Jackson organization for Islamists loyal to Hamas. The metodology is identical. Generate so many claims of "Islamaphobia" that the culture actually starts to buy it. Then the laws move more and more towards the real goal: Sharia law.

4) I see comedians offending Christ all the time. I see hollywood movies ridiculing Christians and Christian symbols. Even the DaVinci Code suggested that Christ had a bastard child. But oddly--unlike the Danish cartoon episode last year where suddendly Islamist all over the globe "spontaneously" demonstrated simultaneously, burned flages, rioted, and even killed a few folks--you don't see Christians rioting, burining, and killing whenever someone insults their faith. See a difference there?

Posted by The Discerning Texan at April 12, 2007 07:59 AM

All I can say is you've made me hungry! Haven't eaten yet - lunch WILL include bacon! lol

Posted by chrys at April 12, 2007 11:54 AM

Well, stick a fork in him: he's done. "bishopDIC" indeed...

Speaking personally as a pretty fundamental, Bible-loving, Bible-believing Christian, it would never occur to me (or to any of my Christian acquaintances) to issue the equivalent of a "fatwah" on the so-called "artists" who produced the atrocities of the cross in urine, or Mary smeared with cow dung.

Certainly it's outrageous, and certainly I would express my disgust in forceful language - but rioting? Killing people and burning buildings? Calling all Christians to assassinate the "artists"? Nope. Ain't gonna happen. As a matter of fact, that Bible that is smeared far more regularly than the Koran expressly FORBIDS me to participate in or encourage such unlawful behavior.

The Name of Christ is insulted regularly, and yet - while I am called to proclaim His Name through the world - I am never commanded by God to slay those who insult the Name of Christ. We don't even have that in our traditions!

Can't say that about Islam, can you?

Oh, and besides, Muhammed was merely a human with a war-like character and a lying tongue - certainly a lot of the accusations against him would stick. However, Christ is the absolutely perfect and holy Son of GOD HIMSELF - who can convict Him of sin?

So, while Islam goes berserk over true allegations against their "prophet," perceived insults to their false "holy" book, and the unveiling of their lying "god," Christians are called to "love our enemies, bless those who persecute us, and pray for those who spitefully use us." (Matthew 5:44)

God Himself - the only wise God, the TRUE God, the LIVING God - God Himself will repay with perfect knowledge and justice.

And you know what? Many times He chooses to reach down to a blasphemer and FORGIVE him through the Blood of His Son, who died for that sinner. The false "god" Allah wouldn't do that.

So Allah can go piss up a rope. Of course, he'll eventually be burning in the eternal fire, along with his followers, but that's God's judgment, not mine.

Like Misha said, "Take your moral equivalence and shove it where your waste products exit the sad waste of perfectly good skin that is your body, kiddo."

-- Kat

Posted by Kat at April 12, 2007 02:09 PM

Aren't you the same folks who argue that there should be a constitutional ban on flag burning? That it should be against the law. So, if i get this right you're for protecting some symbols from hateful attacks but not others. Who then should decide what symbols are worthy for protection? Should it be you? Ah, the hypocrisy of the American right.

Posted by Ahmed at April 12, 2007 02:42 PM

I think its also important to out this story within a post 9/11 context of increasing islomophobia, where muslim bodies are deemed to be inherantly violent and outside of the boundaries of equal protection under the law. Where racism against mulsims and arabs becomes a kind of norm and even under a liberal framework there is the idea that a muslim, by virtue of their religion, must prove to others that he is good or moderate or what have you. To look at this issue as isolated from the larger scene, to label as muslims being overly senstive, is, i think, to miss the boat. Its important to understand that racism and prejudice is casually related to power and hierarchy. thats the point, right?

Posted by Ahmed at April 12, 2007 02:49 PM

"So Allah can go piss up a rope. Of course, he'll eventually be burning in the eternal fire, along with his followers, but that's God's judgment, not mine."

How is your rhetoric different than Osama Bin Laden's. Both of you think that some rather general undefined other represent eternal evil and are heading towards hell. Isnt there anyone here who thinks that this is a disgusting way to speak about human beings? I think that its fair to say that you represent an ugly stream of imperial chritianity hardly the gospel that Christ was persecuted for disseminating.

Posted by Ahmed at April 12, 2007 02:52 PM

Bin Laden's comes from the Koran and fascism, you idiot. But guys like you can't tell the difference between what's prescribed in the Koran (kill the unbelievers wherever you find them) and the ten commandments.

Houston. We have a problem.

Posted by Cao at April 12, 2007 03:07 PM

Or...the fact that we elevate women on a pedastal as mothers of children who are to be protected, and the Islamofascists advocate (again on the advice of the holy Koran and Suna) beating women and rape. Unless, of course, they're using women and children as human shields in battle.

I don't know of any country that is a theocracy except maybe Saudi Arabia, Afghanistan or Iran - and it ain't Christianity that's the rule of law in those places - it's SHARIA.

Posted by Cao at April 12, 2007 03:17 PM

Um, Cao, buddy, i got a call from your village, it seems like they are missing their local idiot. What time will you be back, so I can let them know? Really you are operating under something referred to as "culture talk". Culture Talk assumes that every culture has a tangible essence that defines it, and it then explains politics as a consequence of that essence. Culture Talk after 9/11, for example, qualified and explained the practice of "terrorism" and "Islamic." "Islamic terrorism" is thus offered as both description and explanation of the events of 9/11. Culture Talk has turned Islam into a political category, rather than a religious one; simultaneously, it denies the very real, political nature of Islamist movements by regarding them as the result of a "clash of civilizations." Too often, the differences between Islam (as a religion) and Islamism/political Islam (as a political movement) are obscured. Thus, all Muslims are seen as potential terrorists, while Muslim terrorists are assumed to be acting out of "fundamentalist" religious beliefs. More accurately, fundamentalism is strictly religious in nature, and terrorism is a political tactic. Political Islam, is entirely different from both terrorism and fundamentalism: It is neither necessarily violent nor the work of religious leaders. Political Islam was not created in order to answer spiritual questions, but to address very worldly problems: to end imperial occupation and create social reform in oppressive societies. I know that its rather complicated, but we need to understand these distinction if we are to have an informed debate.

Posted by Ahmed at April 12, 2007 03:32 PM

I shoukld mention too, that Islam as poltics, historically has varied quite a bit. To say that Bin Laden, say, emphsizes or represents the logical outcome of political Islam is to ignore history completely. Religion can serve to justify social hiereachy and no one would deny that in this sense fundementalist Islam justifes and reprodices gender apartheid, exclusivity and oppression. But, so had Christianity or any religion really. Its important to remember that Christinaity supplied moral and ideological support for Imperialism, racism, slavery and the colonosation of most of the globe. But it also was the praxis through which slavery was challenged, US hegemony was fought under liberation theology too. My point is that there have been times in hisotry when political islam has played a positive role in struggles for social justice. My former homeland, south africa, political islam was mobilised to fight aparthied as many religious muslims in the movement beleived opposing injustice, in this case, white supremacy, was a moral and religious duty. Slave revolts in Africa have also hisorically relied on Islam, while Islam has also justified slavery as well. This view of religions as being open spaces, contested terrains is far more fruitful to this conversation than assuming that you can deduce some sort of absolute truth from the Quran or old testamount. Dont you think?

Posted by Ahmed at April 12, 2007 03:41 PM

Ahmed:

Aren't you the same folks who argue that there should be a constitutional ban on flag burning?

Actually, I don't care one way or the other, the flag is our national symbol, but it is just that, a symbol. Others might feel differently and would bust a flag burner in the chops at first light (pun intended). While burning a flag now is a constitutional right of political expression, if it were amended to make it illegal, it would NO LONGER be a constitutional right. Get the distinction Ahmed?

Posted by GM at April 12, 2007 03:51 PM

"While burning a flag now is a constitutional right of political expression, if it were amended to make it illegal, it would NO LONGER be a constitutional right."

My point is that the its often the exact same reactionary big mouths who are always complaining about PC this and PC that (often, I should say, as a cover to hide their deep seeded racist, homophobic or chauvanist agendas) are so vehemanant that amend the contitution in order to make desecrating a symbol (the flag illegal) That this goes against their suppossed free speech absolutalism shold be rather obvious and it makes thier agenda rather more clear, dont you think?

Posted by Ahmed at April 12, 2007 04:02 PM

Dang GM, seems like the idiots are out in force...

I love the way some folks use the argument "Your views are like UBL's" or "Aren't you just as bad as them?"

Earth to morons, WE are merely tired of turning the other cheek, time to knuckle up. All this talking is a waste of time with the islamic faithful, them or us. I choose US. now STFU and DIE! you pedophile worshiping bastards.

I remember 9-11, I remember Beirut, I remember all the terrorists last words, Alah akbar..... the videos of homicide bombers proclaiming their religion as the "catalyst" of their hate. Fine, time to get it on....

Eventually Islam will prove itself, even to the libtards, it won't be too late, because REAL AMERICANS are armed and ready to kick Islam right into the history books.

Islam is not compatible with progress, until the believers drag it into the 21st century, we will be fighting it.

Posted by Robert at April 12, 2007 04:11 PM

"I remember 9-11, I remember Beirut, I remember all the terrorists last words"

But you don't remember Sabra and Shatilla, Deir Yassin, Soweto, Jenin, the September 11th remebered by all Chileans...why is that. Is it because some humans beings are more inherantly valuable than others. IS that why 10 Palestinains can be killed for every one Israeli, while one side is being illegally militarily occipied, yet one set of victims we choose to bestow with humanity while the others can be forgotten. I guess this makes it less complicated for you. Well, sorry, buddy, Im not playing this game. It strikes mer as interesting that village philosophers like Robert (he really hate them ragheads) or Cao never actaully refer to scolarship or history, rather they let their own prejudice guide them anmd repeat silly mantras devoid of anyt historical, temporal or geoprahilcal reality. Ah the joys of ignorance

Posted by Ahmed at April 12, 2007 04:52 PM

Hmmm then again you guys are the same true believers that thought George Bush and his gang of cronies would provide humane and intelligent leadership for the country. Didn't work out too well, did it?

Posted by Ahmed at April 12, 2007 04:53 PM

Hmm, off topic, but before i hear disguswting and vile, anti human, Jenin was a hoax, the IDF were delivering flowers there crap, let me preempt that nonsense. Here is Human Rights Watch's 50 page, copiusly documented study of the figthing and atrocities that took place. They were actually on the ground, you know. I know its easier to rely on talking points mixed with racism, but knowledge is your friends, fellas

http://hrw.org/reports/2002/israel3/

Posted by Ahmed at April 12, 2007 05:00 PM

"because REAL AMERICANS are armed and ready to kick Islam right into the history books."

You and Woody sire attract alot of nutcases here.

Posted by Ahmed at April 12, 2007 06:11 PM

Ahmed, just curious... do you preach this candidly to other Muslims? Or only where it's safe to say difficult things, such as here?

Please give us links to muslim sites where you lecture other muslims about the equivalences you deplore here.

I would also be curious what views you expose yourself to that challenge your ideas - such as the detailed refutations of the HRW documents, for example. Pony up.

Posted by Assistant Village Idiot at April 12, 2007 08:47 PM

Yeah, I'll add my "pony up" request to the AVI's...

And Ahmed - did you NOT notice that I let *GOD* enforce His judgment, as is His right and duty, and NOT take it upon myself? Note that *I* do not demand the deaths of Islamists simply because they insult me or my God.

I don't demand the deaths of people who insult Christ and blaspheme the one true and living God. I don't worry about sins against my God, because He has promised to deal justly with those crimes.

I *DO* demand the just deaths of "men" who kill innocents to make an ideological statement and a guaranteed entry into "Paradise," where 72 "virgins" await them. I can righteously demand them, because these heinous acts are directed against other humans, these acts violate every common sense of morality and survival of humanity, and they are base and cowardly beyond belief.

MY rhetoric differs from OBL's in that I don't demand that my fellow Christians die while killing bystanders. It differs in that I don't demand that mothers send their children on homicidal suicide missions. It differs in that I do not force people to live by the Bible or die by my faction's hand. It differs in that I will use reason and persuasion and evidence to convince people that the God of the Bible is the only true God, but I will not murder or persecute those who disagree.

If you cannot see that sort of basic, intrinsic difference - whatever rhetoric I may use (and believe me, it's actually quite mild) - between me and OBL, then you certainly ave deeper problems and blindnesses than I can cure...

Compare and contrast Christ with Mohammad, and Mohammad and Islam fail on every point. Christians are imperfect, but the God who died for us and gave us His life is NOT.

I pity OBL. The true God of Creation still extends His hand in invitation - and if OBL accepts, I would welcome him as a brother (not without reservations - I'm still human). But OBL only speaks out of the evil which infests his heart - why should we expect anything other than evil and death?

-- Kat

Posted by Kat at April 12, 2007 09:17 PM

I can't believe that a post on bacon would create so many comments that I don't have time to read them. If this topic bothers someone, then don't watch the Cooking Channel.

Posted by Woody at April 13, 2007 08:05 AM

I wonder if the cooking channel is a "hate" crime.

Posted by Ogre at April 13, 2007 08:31 AM

Well, the cooking channel could be a hate crime if they advocate cooking prime steaks "well-done." Other than that, they're completely loving - especially when they talk about chocolate...

;-)

-- Kat

Posted by Kat at April 13, 2007 08:40 AM

"Ahmed, just curious... do you preach this candidly to other Muslims? Or only where it's safe to say difficult things, such as here?"

Well. I can't say that I consider myself an extremely religious person, but I occasionally write for this site http://www.muslimwakeup.com/ , which publishes some excellent stuff. Check it out. As for HRW I have some major ideological critques of them and I think that they are often too tepid and too subserviant to their donors ( I've written about this elsewhere) , but their on the ground research and documentation is excellent. For this reason they remain a valuable source of information, and a informed voice especiallly counterposed to raging ideologues who offer simply prejudice and a naive beieve in sanctity or good of one "side" (i stand with isreal, idiocy) as a substitute for facts. Um, nice being here, its been a wake up call. Now lets just hope that I dont run into any of those "real americans" with guns that are supposedly hoping to wipe people into the history books onm my way to work.

Posted by Ahmed at April 13, 2007 11:43 AM

"And Ahmed - did you NOT notice that I let *GOD* enforce His judgment, as is His right and duty, and NOT take it upon myself? Note that *I* do not demand the deaths of Islamists simply because they insult me or my God."

Um, dude, it sounds like your major beef is with Robert, not me. He was the one going on about how "real americans" or something lie that are armed and ready to wipe "islam" off the map. You might want to then aim your critique at him, don't you think?

Posted by Ahmed at April 13, 2007 11:56 AM

I would hope you're willing to stipulate at least that defacing a Koran on the doorstep of a mosque is intentionally offensive. Instead of recognizing this, the post and commenters go on about how Muslims sometimes do offensive things and that CAIR is overreacting even though NO EVIDENCE of any reaction by CAIR is presented - only that they noted the event. And even if they were offended, isn't that perfectly reasonable?

Your objection regarding the investigation of the action as a hate crime strikes me as fair (though I'm not sure when you all got so ACLU on me). Just as racist speech is protected as long as it isn't threatening, anti-Muslim "pranks" shouldn't be criminalized. Of course, your beef is with the police in Clarksville, not any Islamic organization.

But the larger point here is why not come out and say the people who did this are crude and disgusting cowards? Perhaps you secretly admire their actions?

Posted by Mavis Beacon at April 13, 2007 05:25 PM

Mavis, you are of course correct, the deed was deliberately designed to be offensive, my gripe is that CAIR is not even handed when it comes to protesting sacreligious behavior. That it is being investigated as a hate crime is ludicrous beyond belief. I have nothing but respect for many Muslims that I know personally, I have nothing but disdain for CAIR.

Posted by GM Roper at April 13, 2007 08:00 PM

WOW! Really 99% of the commentary here is unnecessary. The contempt for Islam is astounding! So when will some of you turn your venom on your fellow American? When will the Catholic become less than the Protestant, or the Adventist less than the Methodist.

I don't blame American Muslims for being a little twitchy. There are so few examples where these sorts of actions have turned into genocide/ racial profiling/ lynching. (Can you hear the sarcasm dripping from my lips yet.)

Currently our treatment of the Arabs/ Muslims in America is no different then our treatment of the Irish, Germans, Italians, Poles, Japanese, etc. So instead of hiding racism behind the moniker of patriotism, I suggest we own our hatred. Once we own our hatred then maybe we will get to a point where we can move past it.

Posted by psyberwolfe at April 13, 2007 11:48 PM

"I have nothing but respect for many Muslims that I know personally, I have nothing but disdain for CAIR."

Somehow I seriously doubt this is the case. If it is how come people like Robert come here, say the following "because REAL AMERICANS are armed and ready to kick Islam right into the history books"..and there is little or no objection, not even from the yourself Roper. Why dont you take him on, like you take on people on the left who post here?

Posted by Ahmed at April 14, 2007 12:59 AM

Ahmed, if you think I"m going to play your silly little "guilt by association" game (and one that you have attempted to use several times in the past) you are out of your mind. I seldom notice you taking on reg or some of the other more outreageous commenters on coopers blog, york and jcummings being possible exceptions, regardless of how nasty they get. I have dumped a couple of comments in this thread (one left, two right) and have cleaned up one or two and sent a warning to the authors regarding my cursing policy. If you don't like the way I run this blog, go somewhere else and push your revisionist history and post modern crappola. Or, get your own blog and rant and rave all you want. I let most people say what they want.

Posted by GM Roper at April 14, 2007 02:56 AM

Ahmed:

"I have nothing but respect for many Muslims that I know personally, I have nothing but disdain for CAIR."

Somehow I seriously doubt this is the case.

So Ahmed, you then believe that I have a great deal of respect for CAIR? Who-da-thunk-it?

Posted by GM Roper at April 14, 2007 03:21 AM

I'm obviously not familiar with everything CAIR has written or opined about, but it's not their job to be evenhanded. Their focus is wrongs against Muslims and Islam. That's what they do. You'd be hard pressed to find James Dobson or any leader of the Evangelical community pointing out and condemning slights against Islam. They're Christian leaders. But since it'd be nice if they took the time to condemn equally appalling acts again Christians and Jews, check below. From the CAIR website:

http://www.cair.com/default.asp?Page=articleView&id=2659&theType=NR

http://www.cair.com/default.asp?Page=articleView&id=2667&theType=NR

Posted by Mavis Beacon at April 14, 2007 09:30 AM

Nor is it true that CAIR ignores violence committed in the name of Islam. I'm assuming that GM Roper is as critical about the "even handedness" of a group like the Anti Defemation League, because their purported focus is to advocate against anti semitism

http://www.cair.com/html/911statements.html

Posted by Ahmed at April 14, 2007 12:15 PM

"seldom notice you taking on reg or some of the other more outreageous commenters on coopers blog, york and jcummings being possible exceptions, regardless of how nasty they get."

Not like anyone here cares, but this is a factually challenged comment. The opposite is, in fact, the case. I'd go so far as to say the only people I take on at Coopers are liberals or leftists. I've has lengthy, polemical, thoughtful and at times not so thoughtful debates with Jcummings, Balter, Cooper, Reg (hello, read our spat on Dyson and Cosby) and others.

Posted by Ahmed at April 14, 2007 12:21 PM

"Those who stay in America should be open to society without melting, keeping Mosques open so anyone can come and learn about Islam. If you choose to live here, you have a responsibility to deliver the message of Islam ... Islam isn't in America to be equal to any other faiths, but to become dominant. The Koran, the Muslim book of scripture, should be the highest authority in America, and Islam the only accepted religion on Earth."

"Fighting for freedom, fighting for Islam, that is not suicide," ...
"They kill themselves for Islam."

....................Omar Ahmad, Co-Founder of C.A.I.R.

"I am in support of the Hamas movement."
...................Nihad Awad, Executive Director, C.A.I.R.

Cair and Hate Crimes Fabrication

Posted by GM Roper at April 14, 2007 01:13 PM

I don't know enough about those statements CAIR to really comment, except to say that all religions, by nature, seek to propogate their faith to society. As is thier right. Personally, I think that CAIR probably does a good job advocating for equal civil rights of muslims and against discrimination but I'm no big believer in their rahter narrow, conservative vision of Islam. I should say that noted Islamophobes such as Daniel Pipes are hardly reliable. On the subject of immigration he’s
stated that “western European societies are unprepared for the massive immigration of brown-skinned peoples cooking strange foods and maintaining different standards of hygiene...all immigrants bring exotic customs and attitudes, but Muslim customs are more troublesome than most." Pipes’ anti-Muslim stance is only a part of this man’s all-encompassing xenophobic and blind-sided views on domestic security: on record,
Pipes has chillingly endorsed a book which defends the mass internment of Japanese-American citizens during WWII.Daniel Pipes has
been widely condemned by the American academic
community for his attempts to shut down academic
discourse, as well as reviled for his blatantly racist
positions (such as calling Muslims “potential
killers”).

I will mention though that the vile comment that people "should kill themselves for Islam" is equivalent to Roberts genocidal declaration that "real Americans" who are armed should basicaly wipe out a bunch of people, namely "islam". Yet, you condemn one and not the other? Why?

Posted by Ahmed at April 14, 2007 04:05 PM

Pipes, a crazed fanatic, if you ask me, certainly likes to smear others on his web site and the venues he hosts. But listen to this segment and interview (the audio part is near the top) See what a weasel and coward he is when someone actaully takes on his wildy distorted picture of the world.

Posted by Ahmed at April 14, 2007 04:10 PM

Oops, here's the interview with Pipes

http://tinyurl.com/283ntb

Posted by Ahmed at April 14, 2007 04:19 PM

yowsa, GM. Any source for those quotes? I couldn't find them in the link you gave and Daniel Pipes must of gotten them from somewhere. If they can't be traced to a newspaper or something legit, I'm not really buying it. Let me know.

Posted by Mavis Beacon at April 15, 2007 11:29 PM

Oh, so this has degenerated into the typical liberal dodge of "if it doesn't come from a source that I accept, then I don't have to believe it...and, I only accept liberal sources." The only reason that conservatives have to use The Wall Street Journal Opinion Page, NewsMax, etc. is because the mainstream media gives little or no coverage to anything against that doesn't fit their agendas.

Posted by Woody at April 16, 2007 09:07 AM

Never fear woody, I sent Mavis the links via email. ;-)

Posted by GM Roper at April 16, 2007 11:22 AM

Jimmy Dean is a hate monger for selling sausage.

Posted by Woody at April 16, 2007 11:41 AM