July 18, 2005

Why the Left Can't Learn...or How an unruly class treats substitute teachers

You may have heard educational concerns such as "No student left behind" or "Why Johnny can't read." I have a similar concern for the Left and express that as "Why the Left can't learn". I am trying to understand why many, if not most, people on the left cannot accept other views and learn something new. Not only do they not accept other views, their attitudes seem to be hate and disdain for anyone who doesn't agree with them.

At first, I was going to title this "Why the Left Hates the Right," and if you have debated someone from the left or watched television square-offs between the sides, I think that you understand why that title might be appropriate. But, let's not list offenses. Let it suffice that contentious communication is costly to individuals and to the nation. My interest, rather, is to understand people from the left and to determine why they act as they do. In short, why can't the left learn?

With that background, here are my observations on learning, and I humbly offer these to the left to help them--and, to the right to understand the left.

What does learning demand?

1. Learning demands that you listen rather than drown out others. Drowning out commencement speakers, disrupting the President's speech, and engaging in constant and annoying group chants makes it impossible for you to listen. I've heard it said that God gave us two ears but only one mouth, and that we should use them accordingly.
2. Learning demands that you debate issues rather than call people names. Saying "you're a lying moron" is not a good response in debates. Adding the F-word to that does not improve the response, and that gets you an F from me for your debate grade. Good debate requires good manners, and you can't learn if you treat the other side like an unruly class does a substitute teacher.
3. Learning demands that you break from the herd instincts that limit exploration of alternatives. Being in a herd is like being on a dog team--unless you're the leader, the view never changes. Try to be an individual rather than just group member expected to conform. Expand your frame of thinking.
4. Learning demands accepting and analyzing facts. Don't ignore facts. Also, check the facts, as too many people are willing to tell give you just enough information to get you on their side--the wrong side.
5. Learning demands honesty. When you lie, you may fool some but you have moved the discussion from the real issue to one of your credibility--resulting in no agreement. Honesty is also saying what is correct rather than what you think others want to hear or what is acceptable to a group with speech codes.
6. Learning demands civil discourse and does not require profanity. A good argument does not need supplementing with foul language.
7. Learning demands not jumping to conclusions. There is a reason that the term "knee-jerk liberal" came into use. Don't go there. Before you accuse or act: calm down, think rationally, gather all the facts, be analytical, and make a reasoned and informed decision. If you need more time, you have my permission to wait.
8. Learning demands courage. Have the courage to discuss all points of view, to allow others to express their views without judgment, and to avoid the political-correctness trap. Have the courage to say what you know despite what your "friends" think. It's okay to call mass murderers by the name terrorists rather than merely bomber.
9. Learning demands that you form or accept supportable conclusions rather than resort to emotional demands. That only works when my wife needs something fixed around the house.
10. Learning demands...a number ten. What? Well, there isn't a number ten. I'm leaving this for you to complete. This post is an attempt to understand and explain a problem. It is not a final report, and it can use your input. Can you explain the left and give a point to help in our communication with them? We welcome views from all sides!

Don't go there yet, but I have a Continuation Link at the bottom with additional information. First, there is a comment that I wrote to members of the left at a site in which they had gotten out of control in their attacks against individuals of the right. You can view it and guess how they responded. The second part contains links to articles and comments that others have made on this subject. It makes for interesting reading.

The subject of how a liberal thinks and learns is complex, and I'm going to look around and see if I can find someone trained in mental health issues to explain it more to me. (G.M.?) I said that this was about learning, and I'm trying to learn myself. In fact, I think that dealing with liberals has taught me a lot--especially patience. But, this is an intellectual pursuit and I'm not trying to bash anyone.

However, I'm so concerned about people on the left that I'm thinking about starting a new program--"No liberal left behind".

Additional information and reading material on this subject:


My offering to liberals after attacks on conservatives at another site:

To those who might identify with the following:

Apparently, your minds work differently and you come from different experiences than do I and many from the right. Your unwillingness or inability to understand or even acknowledge the possible validity of the concerns of the right doesn't mean that the right is usually wrong. That unwillingness or inability limits your growth, and your personal attacks limit more exchange of ideas from which you could benefit.

If you think that you have solved all the problems of life and the world in your minds and are certain that you will never have to change your minds or reassess your positions, then you are acting appropriately--except for the personal attacks which represent a character flaw rather than a position argument. On the other hand, if you believe that there is a possibility that someone else from a different viewpoint might be right, then it would be appropriate to listen and try to understand and acknowledge the possibility that others might have something to offer to the debate.

Diversity doesn't have to be only about race, gender, or culture. It can be about the different ways people think and to be accepting of differences to broaden perspectives and to move ahead. If you agree, then this could be a good forum for discussion. If you don't agree, then there are many other sites that accept only one-sided views from the left to which you can contribute unbridled.

This site has previously been an acceptable forum for exchanges of ideas. I would like to see it continue as such. Reasoned discussions and offerings of information further that. Verbal screaming and name-calling resemble an uncontrolled mob and do not further discourse.

You have to make a decision as to what you want this site to be, and the moderator has to make a decision as to how much he thinks is enough. Otherwise, some here, as others have in the past, will make that decision one-by-one until you end up with what you want rather than having a community of sharing.

Some people, like Jim Hitchcock, have called for reason. I am doing the same. Now, you have to choose how you want to conduct yourselves and if you want to join us--and, then, (now this is important) act accordingly. I have decided what is right and have made my choice. Can you or will you choose the correct course?

Woody


Links to articles and discussions on the left:

Dennis Prager at TownHall.com ... (from Tom McMahon)
Why Democrats will smear any conservative court nominee

First, Democrats believe that conservatives by definition are bad people. ...A second reason Democrats and others on the Left use smear as a political weapon is to avoid challenging ideas and intellectual argument.

Ann Coulter (via Right Wing News)
How To Talk To A Liberal (If You Must)

(Okay, I now know that Ann Coulter is offensive to liberals, but try to concentrate on her point rather than her style.)

If you can somehow force a liberal into a point-counterpoint argument, his retorts will bear no relation to what you've said.... In the famous liberal two-step, they leap from one idiotic point to the next, so you can never nail them. It's like arguing with someone with Attention Deficit Disorder.

Michael Novak
National Review Online
Hatred or Hope?
July 23, 2004

The Right tends to think that the Left is stupid  never learns, keeps repeating the same old errors. The Left is different. The Left tends to think that the Right is mean, narrow, selfish, evil (on top of being stupid).


Updated for Additions:

The Mudville Gazette
Left, Right, Post
July 17, 2005

Today's left subscribes to a rigid orthodoxy from which they can't veer. This may be the reason there is one big lefty blog and a few smaller ones scattered over the net. Read one and you've read them all. ...Individuals on the Right also often shut down opposing views, of course, but the spectrum of opinion on virtually every topic I can name seems broader across the Right. Perhaps that's because it's currently defined as anyone who doesn't adhere to the left's strict orthodoxy on every conceivable point.

Posted by GM Roper at July 18, 2005 01:30 AM | TrackBack
Comments

Whatever.

Posted by Jassalasca Jape at July 18, 2005 04:21 AM

Very good Woody, and, as you can see from the comment above, needed.

Now, the commenter above, Jassalasca Jape is a liberal type, perhaps he/she is a progressive, perhaps a socialist, but someone on the left of center and of that there can be no doubt. The response is typical of many left types because they have a great deal of difficulty in even conceptualizing that someone on the right is capable of their level of intellectual ability. But, of course we know that some of the most brilliant minds in the world are conservative in nature. None-the-less, the snide, snarky "whatever" comment is designed to shut off debate and an exchange, not foster it. It is precisely the ammunition of someone not ready to engage in intellectual confrontation and debate.

Posted by GM Roper at July 18, 2005 05:08 AM

Very good addition to the list, G.M.

10-a Learning demands that you respect other views and don't assume intellectual superiority, because others might know more than you think.

Posted by Woody at July 18, 2005 11:02 AM

Good one, Woody. (And remember, I'm slightly to the left of Che Guevara, and not likely to change any time soon.) I found it argumentative and partisan in a great way. When we feel battered by the "other side," as we all seem to in this divisive political climate, I think this kind of creative venting is healthy and...well fun. (Thank God, Bush is a uniter, as someone posted elsewhere recently, imagine how bad things would be if he were a divider!!!).

But, the truth is, if one can rise above the fray altogether, one sees that both sides behave badly is similar ways. And, sadly, this ain't confined to liberals and conservatives; it is, I'm afraid, the behavior that partisanship of any kind produces--- where one simply can't entertain the POV of the other guy, and acts accordingly.

(Maybe you're right that the tendency to swear a blue streak is more liberal than not, since we “soft on defense†folks are VERY anxious to prove how manly we are, even us women. ; - ) On the other hand, those TX repub guys are not exactly mild mannered in their language either, in my experience. And having just gone to a cop party over the weekend, full of mostly life-long conservatives, I can assure you no one was tepid in their language, particularly once they'd had a drink or three.)

When I produced an instructional video nearly 20 years ago on….of all things….breast feeding, the various factions in the breastfeeding activist world were as vicious and horrifying in their fury at one another as the worst kind of political hack (and they were essentially on the same side of things, as they were breastfeeding advocates, for crying out loud). What I concluded from that frightening experience was that this kind of behavior had more to do with human nature, than it did any particular issue or political stance.

Anyway, good post. "Saying "you're a lying moron" is not a good response in debates."

Amen.

Posted by rosedog at July 18, 2005 02:13 PM

Thanks for this. I was wondering why my idiot leftie brothers arguments kept going around in circle, never touching on facts like they were red hot. Good job.

Posted by Mike at July 18, 2005 05:56 PM

Why? Because for the extreme, it's basically an oedipal struggle that festers instead of being resolved.
_______________

Please tell me this is a joke. I'm just a numbers man. G.M. knows psychology. I figured it was more of a left-brained / right-brained thing--plus, some liberals are just plain psycho.

Woody

Posted by PJ at July 18, 2005 09:01 PM

No, it's not a joke, LOL! I think at the base of the extreme left hysteria (not the mere dissent), is hatred of authority, envy of authority, not being able to feel equal to adult authority. IOW, they're plain psycho.

Posted by PJ at July 18, 2005 11:45 PM

PJ raises an interesting question in my mind...I wonder if the extreme right has an extreme fear of questioning authority...or just a certifiable fear of having it's authority questioned?

Posted by jim hitchcock at July 19, 2005 09:35 AM

Interesting theory, Jim. I'll expect 1200 words by tomorrow, footnotes from at least three sources. :)

Posted by PJ at July 19, 2005 09:37 AM

You know those Saabs and Volvos driven by liberals with bumper stickers all over them? One of the favorite oldies was "Question Authority." Another old one was "Don't trust anyone over 30."

Well, I'm not a liberal by any stretch, but I don't always have positive views about people in authority--particularly those who push around their power just for that sake without any regard to whether or not they are doing any good...for instance, some airport screeners and "educators." In that regards, you might say that I don't respect some authority--but, I obey it because we have laws that I do respect.

That may be one difference between the left and right. We might both question authority, although for different reasons, but our responses are different because liberals also question the laws that support them. (That's why the left needs "bad" judges--so that laws can be changed to fit what they want.)

In this entry, I might have defined its purpose better. I wrote, "My interest, rather, is to understand people from the left and to determine why they act as they do." Then I proceeded to list WHAT they do rather than WHY they do it. Now, P.J. has raised a possible WHY--and it seems a little weird but possibly accurate. Do we take a poll of the left and asked them if their mothers touched them inappropriately as kids?

This is getting way beyond my expertise. Anyway, I'm glad that I'm normal.

Posted by Woody at July 19, 2005 10:15 AM

I don't see questionong authority so much as a matter of obeying the law, Woody...law being what separates us from anarchy, as I do a matter of good citizenship. Kind of a keeping watch on unfettered government sort of thing. Think reading Orwell had an impact on my early thinking.

Posted by jim hitchcock at July 19, 2005 12:06 PM

None-the-less, the snide, snarky "whatever" comment is designed to shut off debate and an exchange, not foster it.

It's a free country, boys. But your political paranoia may have a point; if everyone who finds your self-congratulatory banter less than interesting is an object of contempt (I'm sorry, a "liberal"), the threat to your values just might prove to be real after all.

Hopeless.

Posted by Jassalasca Jape at July 20, 2005 04:18 AM

JJ - You missed the point entirely. We were not showing contempt but were looking for answers as to why discourse between the sides cannot be better. In fact, I made the specific point that this was an inquiry and study and that bashing was not on the agenda.

I don't know how you view it from your postion, and maybe you can tell us, but I have laid it out how I view it from my side. Liberals just don't seem willing to carry on civilized and polite exchanges on political matters. We do something completely innocent, such as telling the wife that we're going to a baseball game. You don't expect her to hurl a frying pan at you for something like that, even though she may not like it, but that's what liberals do in political exchanges. You say one thing that they don't like and here come the frying pans.

I'm hardly worried about a threat to our values because you don't find this interesting, any more than I feel a threat to my values because some people listen to sports radio instead of Rush Limbaugh.

However, I hope that you'll check back and let us view things from your side. If you respond with something better than "Whatever," then you might help us to understand you better and you might change some minds. Isn't that a better approach?

Posted by Woody at July 20, 2005 09:58 AM





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