May 27, 2006
Obnoxous and Offensive, and I'm Glad Of It~
Sigmund, Carl and Alfred have stated up front what they want to do:
We don't care who we insult or who takes offense. Unlike the other brilliant therapists who regularly blog, we are dead and thus don't give a rats ass about what you think. Further, we are smarter than you, better looking than you and the object of desire of m[any] fabulous and good looking women. For you whiny,metro-sexual and sensitive bastards out there, we concede you look very nice in your pink shirt, yellow paisley tie and dress flip-flops with tassels."Then they proceed to so with an amazing elan.
I read their post, then read it again and I can't find a whole lot to fault them for. Oh, I'm not sure I fully agree with the illegal immegration issue, but on the other hand, they have laid their position out with a great deal of backup. Could they be right?
Here's the reality horse pill- Hispanic immigrants are no different than European immigrants. Yes, they want to have neighborhood grocery stores that stock food from home and they want to have dry cleaners that explain the spot removal process to them in their own language. So what? In New York, there are dry cleaners who speak Chinese, others who speak Italian and still others that will unload invectives in Yiddish. Spanish speaking dry cleaners will not sink the ocean liner that is America. Besides, as that Hispanic grows out of the neighborhood- and into your four cubits- the kid behind the counter will be going to night school, studying engineering, or law. Be nice- you might need his services one day.Hispanics also want to educate their kids and build a future for their families. They want o get educated and build businesses. Worried about crime? Well, the Irish 'westies' were not much different than the Italian mob- and they weren't much different from the Jewish gangsters. They were crooks, all of them and for the most part, got what they deserved. That didn't stop those immigrant communities from growing, assimilating and contributing to the American tapestry.
Here's another unspoken secret. In their drive to become 'good Americans,' most immigrants have always been ashamed of their criminal classes- and in fact, went out of their way to be better than average. They had something to prove. That's why Irish beat cops beat the crap out of little red headed boys that stole apples. The cop didn't really care about the kids. He cared that the kid's mother and family would be ashamed. The Irish weren't all shanty, you know. Italian family females were more formidable than most weapons of mass destruction. There was an mother, grandmother, aunt or cousin to keep you in line- and they didn't have to be related to you. Success in Little Italy was a community event. Jewish immigrant parents made sure it was understood that primary education ended with a Bachelor's degree. A graduate degree was OK, but a doctorate was preferable. If you weren't so inclined, that was OK, too. It didn't matter if mama died a few years early, of grief.
There are mothers, fathers and children in the Hispanic community that have Irish, Italian and Jewish traits. For those of you who are wondering why I didn't mention Greeks or Bolivians, be assured that you are idiots."
Agree or disagree, you really ought to read the whole thing.
Posted by GM Roper at May 27, 2006 09:07 PM | TrackBackSC&A deserve a rant award for that one!
Posted by Ben USN (Ret) at May 28, 2006 06:38 AM
I agree, which might surprose the few that read my blog. I have no problem with legal immigrants. I do have a problem with illegal immigrants no matter what their ethnic heritage. And I have a proble with amnesty for illegal immigrants as it allows them to jump ahead of the immigrants described in the post.
My father's mother's parents, the most recent immigrants in my family, were from Germany. My grandmother (born in the U.S.) went to a German speaking grade school. She spoke German to my father at home, (which helped him in college quite a bit). In general my grandmother's family fit in with the description in the post.
Legal immigrants are fine. They'll help pay my Social Security benefits.:-) But we need to control who enters and who doesn't and the numbers need to be limited.
Posted by DADvocate at May 28, 2006 07:02 AM
The only problem with their screed is that the European imigrants were legal, and the hispanic ones are not. The illegal ones should be denied citizenship ... forever ... period, and deported back to their country of origin. Why do illegal aliens have more rights than I do? I can hardly wait for November.
Posted by Vulgorilla at May 28, 2006 07:39 AM
It appears I need to clarify my position. I just read the above post where Sigmund, et al don't mention "illegal." My postion on illegal immigrants is close to Vulgorilla's. At best illegals should go to the end of a very long line.
Posted by DADvocate at May 28, 2006 08:29 AM
As the son of immigrants, I feel I must donate my two pesos to the group. It is easy to whine about stuff until you sit down and figure out how it really affects you.
For example, the big global warming rants have died down, replaced by the 'Gas is how much??' rants. The reaon gas is so expensive is because the process hits a bottleneck when refiners have to mix in an addative that makes it more efficient at hotter temperatures. That's why the price goes up every summer.
People will complain about illegals until the illegals get tired of hearing it and go home. Famers, forced to hire American workers will see their margin shirk, and will have to raise prices to make farming pay.
The cost will ride the old trickle-down machine until we are paying a heck of a lot more for our fruit and veg. The farmers will be assailed in the media, just like the oil industry (or as it is now known "BIG OIL") is now.
Of couorse, then, the only fix will be to find Paco and say we're sorry.
Posted by The Bishop at May 28, 2006 05:56 PM
Consigning a generation of illegal, or legal, immigrants to agricultural servitude when other processes would develop in their absence, is neither just nor moral. With this kind of thinking in place, we'd still have raw and bleeding hands dragging burlap bags between cotton rows. It's disgraceful.
We don't know how much any product would increase in cost due to labor scarcity; moreover, a deprived and desperate worker exploited for the purposes of low produce prices denigrates every labor theme and myth of the late 19th and 20th century. How easily we discard our principles for low prices. In any case, a Guest Worker program will eventuate in labor organization and higher prices anyway, so the point is moot. We will get the worst of both worlds.
The conceit of "straight talk" from our dead shrinks looms even larger when you realize they aren't touching the central issue, which is legality and infux regulation in favor of assimilation. Anyone can make the assimilation case because it's happened before. Big deal. I'm unimpressed.
Posted by Rhod at May 28, 2006 06:23 PM
My father's efforts as a loborer were not a wasted effort. He came from Mexico with nothing and, through his hard work and determination, all of his kids got an education and very good jobs. Yes, farmers took advantage of my father and uncles, but none of their children are poor or work the fields for a pittance. Perhaps if were to trim some fat off the welfare rolls, the jobs taken by illegal immigrants would dry up.
Thankfullly, this will never happen. The American worker is too lazy, though they often try to mask their laziness by saying they are 'too proud,' to do the jobs of my father's generation.
Personally, I think it's great. The more illegal immigrants are given jobs in this country, the more of their kids will get an education and access to opportunities in the U.S. And, honestly, I have a lot of cousins still in Mexico who would do anything for a shot at what I have. So, from them, I say thanks American worker. Thanks for leaving plenty of jobs for 'illegals.'
Posted by The Bishop at May 28, 2006 11:01 PM
Thomas Sowell exposed ths lie, recenly.
Illegal immigrants only make up 24% of the agricultural work-force.
The most that fruit and veggies would go up is 10-20% in price, if farmers were forced to hire American citizens.
Posted by Ben USN (Ret) at May 28, 2006 11:50 PM
Americans are doing at least 76% (and more in other services) of the jobs Americans are supposedly to lazy or unwilling to do.
Posted by Ben USN (Ret) at May 29, 2006 12:10 AM
The American worker is too lazy, though they often try to mask their laziness by saying they are 'too proud,' to do the jobs of my father's generation.
This is hogwash. Illegal immigrants arep paid illegally low wages. I live in a rural, agricultural area. 10-15 years ago all farm work was done by local "American workers." With the influx of illegal aliens, farm owners began paying wages far below what had been the going rate. Farmers are exempt from all sorts of salary reporting laws, withholding laws, etc., thus is is easy for them to get away with paying illegal wages. Illegal aliens won't report illegal employment practices because they are illegal themselves.
It's not a matter of American workers being lazy or too proud. If you check the figures American workers work longer and produce more than any other country in the world. It's a matter of American workers must work for legal wages and American employers wouldn't dare pay an American worker what they pay illegal immigrants because of the possible legal ramifications.
Maybe if Mexico had a more honest government and, maybe, if more Mexicans worked harder at building the economy in thier country, illegal immagration wouldn't be an issue.
Posted by DADvocate at May 29, 2006 04:24 AM
The argument that is on the front page of newspapers across the country is not about Africa, but about the Mexican border. Dubya's even sending in the national guard.
As for Africans coming the to U.S., if they can sneak in like Mexicans do, then they should. Set up all the straw men you want, the fact remains the latest round of immigration legislation is aimed squarely at illgal immigrants from south of the border.
Posted by The Bishop at May 29, 2006 05:00 AM
The Bishop:
You personal situation is important to you, but still not central to the many questions around unrestricted illegal immigration into the US. One, for the moment, might be whether we should allow others, from any country, to do what you seem to support. Why just Mexicans? Why not any ethnic group anywhere, or are Mexicans privileged in this respect. Conditions in parts of Africa make Mexico look like a paradise. Why not load up 174's and fly them all here? Should these people be abandoned because they can't walk to the US? You need to answer this question, if only for yourself, and reconcile the injustice you apprently endorse as a matter of convenience for you.
Posted by Rhod at May 29, 2006 06:24 AM
"Maybe if Mexico had a more honest government and, maybe, if more Mexicans worked harder at building the economy in thier country, illegal immagration wouldn't be an issue."
Amen. Why don't the Mexicans do what we did in the 1770's? Throw the rascals out and start afresh. Build the country and economy they so desperately want. Why do I have to support them through taxes? (free medical care, welfare, etc.)
Posted by Vulgorilla at May 30, 2006 07:14 AM
I personally don't have a problem with illegals, only because of where I live and the fact that I know so many of them.
I live in Chandler, AZ. On the main drag, in "old town" Chandler- right now, as I type this- there are dozens of "day laborers" (illegals) standing on the corner waiting for work- any type of work. Most Americans don't live in areas with as many Mexicans as there are in Arizona...so maybe you don't realize: These are very hard working people. It's hard for me, as an American, not to welcome the tired, the poor, the huddled masses yearning to be free. That's what I thought Americans are supposed to do.
Also, I would like to address one small myth that someone mentioned earlier. Employers would need enormous balls to hire someone that is totally undocumented. I don't know what the fine is now, but I remember it was $10,000 per incidence 15 years ago. They come down hard on employers that hire illegals- with the fines and so forth.
These illegals usually have FAKE social security cards. What does that mean? A lot of them pay taxes from their yearly check, but they aren't getting a refund at the end of the year...and remember, people that earn mimimum wage are tax exempt...but not when are using a fake social. In other words, a lot of illegals are paying into the pot that they'll never collect from. That's good for us, right?
As usual, I am playing Devil's advocate. I do not really support anyone coming here illegally, but I also have a very hard time condemning them. It just seems so...anti-American.
It's not easy to cross the desert, evade border patrol and then take an OUTSIDE job in the Arizona summer heat. I can't help but tip my hat. I'm not sure I'd have that kind of constitution.
Posted by mike1971 at May 30, 2006 08:24 AM
Mike, actually, they need only teeny tiny huevos. No employer of note has been prosecuted and there-in lies part of the problem.
I live in Deep South Texas, only a few miles from the Mexico/US border and pass illegals all the time without knowing for sure that they are illegal. But you are right in many ways. Like it or not, the law is broken and currently with the hoopla in Washington it is unfixable because the politicians are pandering to both the vote and to the employers.
A large portion of the illegals in this country have at least one child born here and that provides an anchor. The law giving every person automatic citizenship is considered to be the 14th Amendment, but that has not been thouroughly tested in the courts yet. Too, there is no way to gather up 11 million people and deport them simultaneously. Just can't be done.
Perhaps after this election, cooler heads will prevail, the current bill in conference will die and we can take a look at enforcement of the border and what to do reasonably with those that are here without the proper documentation. However, given the heat of the issue, I have my doubts. Maybe I'll run for King of the US and make a decree that people start to think before they open their mouths. Nah, I'd never get elected.
Posted by GM Roper at May 30, 2006 09:03 AM
While the Washington muckety-mucks pay lip service to reforming the nation's broken detention and deportation system, catch-and-release of immigration lawbreakers remains the order of the day -- not only at the border, but all across the country's interior. I have yet see any attempt at trying to deport anybody. What I do see and read is consistant "WE JUST CAN'T DEPORT MILLIONS OF ILLEGALS" What part of ILLEGAL did you miss?
How quickly you throw in the towel! It is not a matter of "We Can't" by law "WE SHOULD"
Posted by Tom at May 31, 2006 09:37 AM
