June 05, 2005


The the intellectual support for the Islamo-fascist assault on liberal democratic legitimacy involves a very complex, comprehensive, multifaceted strategy. First, it involves a demonstration of the failure of Western democracies to meet their own standards which are regarded as utopian measuring rods. Second, it proceeds by continuous falsification of Islamo-fascist practices and assertions of Islamic loyalty to basic Western values. At the same time that it is suggested that we do not respect our own values, it is claimed by the Islamists that they do. Our flaws are exaggerated, theirs are simply denied. Third, the conclusion is, of course, inexorably arrived at, that there is, at best, not a dime's worth of difference between these two modes of governance.

Full disclosure: I didn't write the above, I edited it and substituted islamo-fascism (and related terms) for the Soviet Union in an essay originally written by Jeane J. Kirkpatrick "The Myth of Moral Equivalence"

Which brings us to the purpose of this essay. There have been a multitude of writers of the left/liberal/progressive/Democratic Party types who decry the conduct of the war on terror based on actions taken by some blockheads (I'm trying to be polite in describing these folk) in mistreating prisoners taken in the war on terror.

Indeed, there is a large body of reportage describing how we have failed of our idealism as a nation by engaging in "torture" and other behaviors that have damaged our view of ourselves, damaged our reputation in the world and in the so called, much vaunted but entirely illusory "arab street."

In a recent post on gulags the comments from those on the opposite side of the aisle came fast and furious. Of a total (to date) 26 comments fully 14 of those comments were from the left taking issue with me. That is well and good, the whole idea behind my essay, and indeed this blog, is to post my beliefs and thoughts and to engender argument from those opposed to my ideas. To this extent I have, at long last, succeeded. The intellectual battle is thus joined.

From the left comes the argument that America and American style democracy is a failure because of Abu Ghraib, Gitmo, sending and the evidence that proves this was supplied by by none other than one George Soros:

"After an introduction by Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton, billionaire financier George Soros told left-wing activists at a Washington function today the Abu Ghraib prison abuse scandal in Iraq is comparable to the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks on the United States."
"In January, Soros told an audience at the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace no less than the future of the planet hinges on the results of the presidential election.

"I'm ready to put my money where my mouth is," he said. "2004 is not an ordinary election. It's a referendum on the Bush doctrine. The future of the world hangs in the balance."

Uhhh, George, you lost. America voted for Bush and by extension, the War on Terrorists.

Yeppers, a true moral equivalence. What's the problem with the left, and please note, I'm not talking about Democrats, I'm not talking about liberals or progressives, I'm talking about the left, the hard core those who are so intellectually dishonest that they cannot tell the difference between abuse of prisoners (which has happened, only a person with their brain disengaged could say it didn't) and the stoning of gay folk, the execution by beheading of prisoners, the beating of women for a myriad of reasons, the imprisonment and sometimes execution of Christians in Saudi Arabia, the enslavery, torture (the real thing, not just abusive treatment), and execution of animists in Sudan. These are not equal behaviors.

I'm sure this post will bring out those who argue that we have failed of our promise. But war, and here we didn't start this war, is an awful thing. Bad things happen in war. We know this, any intellectually honest person knows this. Yet, we also give Quran's to our muslim prisoners. Do you honestly believe that Al Qaeda gives bibles to those they have captured. Do you think that those captured by the islamists in Iraq have access to legal cousel or courts? Do you honestly believe that their actions are the equivalent of ours?

This is the framework of the radical left. The left with an agenda. The agenda is simple, express outrage in logical and seemingly intelligent terms and decrease the effectiveness in the war on terrorists. Enlist Muslims in the condemnation of the trashing of the Quran and ask for more "sensitivity" in understanding the islamo-fascist. Don't believe me, how about "QURAN DESECRATION:
Far Worse than Abu Ghraib" by M.A. Muqtedar Kahn here.

The truth about Abu Ghraib is bad enough, in fact, it's sickening that American Soldiers could stoop so low. But the facts are also that those involved were also being investigated before the scandle broke, that charges were filed and courts martial were scheduled. Do those proposing a moral equivalence purport to tell us that the islamo-fascists would have done the same to those who beheaded helpless prisoners? I don't think so.

A friend recently sent me an e-mail that speaks to the differences between how we specifically and the west in general treat muslims and how we in turn are perceived by those self same muslims:

"Running the risk of sounding like one of those weird "conspiracy theorists," I must say that I do firmly believe that there is a very sophisticated, multi-faceted program to in time, supplant western culture (e.g., Christianity) with Islam. Remember, Islam is not "just" a religion; it is also a political power structure. When I say multi-faceted, I am saying that there is a concerted effort under foot to dismantle western culture, simultaneously, on several fronts. Farakan is working overtime to convert increasing numbers of African Americans, CAIR is working to indoctrinate school children through their programs of providing "free literature" and guest speakers to our public schools, more and more Muslims are becoming school teachrers, the Saudi government funds Madrassas almost exclusively, there are increasing numbers of mosques going up throughout US cities, there is a massive effort to garner political support for Islam within the Congress (Conyers), and through the ACLU and CCR lobbies, much effort is being placed on having Christians denounced as part of a "hate campaign" against the "tolerant" faith of Islam. MY concern is that this is working all too well, most Americans are not paying attention, and then what causes my deepest level of concern is that "they" are using "our" constitution to achieve their goals.

I am not advocating any kind of red-neck hoe-down here . . . but I am saying that if the various investigative agencies of the U. S. government aren't looking carefully enough, we will soon see [radical-Wahabbi] mosques spewing their filth to the direct and long term detriment to American culture. It is already in full swing in Europe; we are next. I recently read an article where a Swedish teenaged girl was found guilty of being "insensitive" to minorities for (are you ready) wearing a small symbol the the national ensign. So you see, in some western countries, citizens are not even permitted to display national pride because it offends minority sensitivities. Could that happen here? It already does, in terms of the so-called "hate" crimes where even speaking truth can lead to lawsuits. One lady author living in NYC was recently indicted in Italy for publishing a book that speaks the truth about Islam, and Italian Muslims filed a criminal complaint.

One person with whom I correspond, he is Greek American who lives in NYC, told me not long ago that he fully expects American cities will look similar to Beruit within another generation or so. I hope he is wrong, but I fear that he is not. I think my underlying concern is that the longer we wait to confront "the enemy within," the more difficult it will be to sort things out in defense of the American way.

The American way -- where foreigners are welcomed to our shores with the expectation that they will embrace us, learn our language, educate their children, work hard, serve America when it is necessary, and take their places by our side. Muslims are being told to do just the opposite -- "remain apart, trust Christians not, do not offer a helping hand, even when they do good things for you, use the infidel's system against the infidel," and that kind of sh**. And, of course, dumb asses that we are, we do not perceive any of this as being a problem."
Now I know that there will be some who decry this kind of language, but will also use equally intemperate language, indeed perhaps worse, to describe the author of the e-mail. Some of the terms I have been called in various forums are not to be believed (well, if you read DU, you can believe it).

An Arab who is also a Christian states it fairly well:

"The following is my analysis of Islamic invasion of America, the agenda of Islamists and visible methods to take over America by the year 2020! Will Americans continue to sleep through this invasion as they did when we were attacked on 9/11?

1) Terminate America’s freedom of speech by replacing it with hate crime bills state-wide and nation-wide.

2) Wage a war of words using black leaders like Louis Farrakhan, Rev. Jesse Jackson and other visible religious personalities to promote Islam as the original African-American’s religion while Christianity is for the whites! Strange enough, no one tells the African-Americans that it was the Arab Muslims who captured them and sold them as slaves, neither the fact that in Arabic the word for black and slave is the same, “Abed.”

3) Engage the American public in dialogues, discussions, debates in colleges, universities, public libraries, radio, TV, churches and mosques on the virtues of Islam. Proclaim how it is historically another religion like Judaism and Christianity with the same monotheistic faith.

4) Nominate Muslim sympathizers to political office for favorable legislation to Islam and support potential sympathizers by block voting.

5) Take control of as much of Hollywood, the press, TV, radio and the internet by buying the corporations or a controlling stock.

6) Yield to the fear of imminent shut-off of the lifeblood of America – the black gold. America’s economy depends on oil, (1000 products are derived from oil), so does its personal and industrial transportation and manufacturing -41% comes from the Middle East.

7) Yell, “foul, out-of-context, personal interpretation, hate crime, Zionist, un-American, inaccurate interpretation of the Quran” anytime Islam is criticized or the Quran is analyzed in the public arena.

8) Encourage Muslims to penetrate the White House, specifically with Islamists who can articulate a marvelous and peaceful picture of Islam. Acquire government positions, get membership in local school boards. Train Muslims as medical doctors to dominate the medical field, research and pharmaceutical companies. Take over the computer industry. Establish Middle Eastern restaurants throughout the U.S. to connect planners of Islamization in a discreet way. Ever notice how numerous Muslim doctors in America are, when their countries need them more desperately than America?

9) Accelerate Islamic demographic growth via:
Massive immigration (100,000 annually since 1961) No birth control whatsoever – every baby of Muslim parents is automatically a Muslim and cannot choose another religion later. Muslim men must marry American women and Islamize them (10,000 annually). Then divorce them and remarry every five years – since one cannot have the Muslim legal permission to marry four at one time. This is a legal solution in America. Convert angry, alienated black inmates and turn them into militants (so far 2000 released inmates have joined Al Qaida world-wide). Only a few have been captured in Afghanistan and on American soil. So far – sleeping cells!

10) Reading, writing, arithmetic and research through the American educational system, mosques and student centers (now 1500) should be sprinkled with dislike of Jews, evangelical Christians and democracy. There are 300 exclusively Muslim schools with loyalty to the Quran, not the U.S. Constitution.

11) Provide very sizeable monetary Muslim grants to colleges and universities in America to establish “Centers for Islamic studies” with Muslim directors to promote Islam in higher education institutions.

12) Let the entire world know through propaganda, speeches, seminars, local and national media that terrorists have high-jacked Islam, not the truth, which is Islam high-jacked the terrorists. Furthermore in January of 2002, Saudi Arabia’s Embassy in Washington mailed 4500 packets of the Quran, videos, promoting Islam to America’s high schools--free. They would never allow us to reciprocate.

13) Appeal to the historically compassionate and sensitive Americans for sympathy and tolerance towards the Muslims in America who are portrayed as mainly immigrants from oppressed countries.

14) Nullify America’s sense of security by manipulating the intelligence community with misinformation. Periodically terrorize Americans of impending attacks on bridges, tunnels, water supplies, airports, apartment buildings and malls. (We have experienced this too often since 9-11.)

15) Form riots and demonstrations in the prison system demanding Islamic Sharia as the way of life, not American’s justice system.

16) Open numerous charities throughout the U.S. but use the funds to support Islamic terrorism with American dollars.

17) Raise interest in Islam on America’s campuses by insisting that freshman take at least one course on Islam. Be sure that the writer is a bonafide American, Christian, scholarly and able to cover up the violence in the Quran and express the peaceful, spiritual and religious aspect only.

18) Unify the numerous Muslim lobbies in Washington, mosques, Islamic student centers, educational organizations, magazines and papers by internet and an annual convention to coordinate plans, propagate the faith and engender news in the media of their visibility.

19) Send intimidating messages and messengers to the outspoken individuals who are critical of Islam and seek to eliminate them by hook or crook.

20) Applaud Muslims as loyal citizens of the US by spotlighting their voting record as the highest percentage of all minority and ethic groups in America.

This site shows a few of the "debates" between the author of the above and Muslim leaders. Yep, Morally Equivalent for sure.

For a last argument, let us return to Jeane J. Kirkpatrick:

"But whenever anyone suggests that the world is dominated by superpower rivalries, they imply that we have some goal other than fostering and preserving a world of independent nations. Otherwise the concept of superpower rivalry makes no sense. But if there is only one power which seeks to undermine and subvert the independence of nations, then there is no question of superpower rivalry, and there isn't even a question of a contest between the United States and that imperialistic power. There is a contest between the imperialistic power and all other countries who desire to preserve their independence.

UPDATE: Babalublog has a terrific post up about the true sense of what a real gulag is. No attempt at moral equivalence here. Good Job Val Prieto. Good damn job!

Posted by GM Roper at June 5, 2005 10:39 AM | TrackBack

I had to stop reading. I'll come back to it. Wahhabi-ism is present today in over 80% of American mosques. They are preaching kill American democracy from those mosques, and they are also training jihadis here. Some of them have been arrested in Virginia, others in New York...the reality of this is so disturbing..I have to take a break.

Posted by Cao at June 5, 2005 06:21 PM


GM, this is so gooooooood! I think I need to sit down with you on IM and learn - or practice, rather - practical Logic (FYI for... "dissenters"... that's the formal study, vs. the proper workings of an intelligent mind. You may be excused due to a lack of the prerequisites...). I see straw man arguments, fallacy, moral equivilance, formal errors (errors of form, not fashion mistakes, LOL) and of course, the error of equivocation all over the place, but I need more experience in pointing them out.

For those of you who do not know what I'm talking about, google "logical thought fallacies", and you'll get the beginnings of a study on what we're discussing.

Thanks, GM. I can see that you're going to help me be a better writer - by example!

Blessings (and awesome post about WW2 over at TWA! Beautiful intro of yourself to the group!)

Hugzzz to my friend,

Posted by Romeocat at June 5, 2005 07:10 PM

R'cat, thanks. I consider that high praise indeed.

Posted by GMRoper at June 5, 2005 07:39 PM

Just wanted to echo R'Cat and say welcome to TWA. This is a great piece and I look foward to reading more from you...

Posted by morg173 at June 5, 2005 08:14 PM

GM, that kirkpatrick quote just overlooks little things like the overthrow of democratically elected governments like mossadegh, arbenz, goulart, bosch, allende,...for starters?


Posted by steve at June 5, 2005 09:47 PM

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