May 29, 2005
Worth 1,000,000 Words And Maybe More!!!
Petefrt via Flickr sent to me by a friend.
muahahahahahahahah....
Posted by Frank at May 29, 2005 01:27 PM
So those French peacekeepers that have won praise from US military are chopped liver? Wow!
Posted by steve at May 29, 2005 10:44 PM
Steve, Actually, I think PATÉ would be a better term. I have no problem with individual Frenchmen/women. The example you use is one example whereas there are hundreds if not thousands that show that PATÉ is probably too good a term. It's the culture of superiority that gall's me. When I hear a foreigner attempt English and make mincemeat of some pronunciations, I try to help them out with the correct word or pronunciation and then congratulate them for the attempt; The french on the other hand are sneering and condescending about their language and if it's not perfect, don't try....
The stupidity they showed in both world wars, Vietnam, vs. Greenpeace, NATO and most recently the UN makes the "French" useless!
Posted by GMRoper at May 29, 2005 11:01 PM
GM, maybe if you're talking about the French right-wing you have a point about behavior in WW 2, say. But there was a French resistance to the occupiers and it was certainly worthy of praise.
Their actions against Greenpeace, nothing that the US' other allies don't do quite often, I don't see the big deal about the French really.
But I don't see the big deal really, Chirac is as much in agreement with Bush as he is you about the need to reorder the world economy along the lines of neo-liberal corporate globalization. They even agree with Bush on the goal of turning Iraq into a privatized economy, just differ on whether military intervention was the way to do that. So, the French are I'm afraid much closer to you than the anti-war movement at this stage [or even when the official invasion began in 2003]
The business about language, somewhat true. Then again, I've met many a very kind Frenchman and woman abroad in my travels. The stereotypes you use are about as useful as the stereotype of every American being an ugly American when travelling abroad. Good for heating up passions, but little of use in the way of serious analysis.
Posted by steve at May 30, 2005 08:58 AM
Steve, the French resistance were individuals, united in a common cause BECAUSE the Vichy govt capitulated to Le Bosch. They are not the "typical" french culture. They are the exception to the rule. And that is precisely my issue with the French, the exceptions are there, but generally they are a weak, slovenly and un-democratic nation.
Posted by GMRoper at May 30, 2005 03:12 PM
Well, yeah, the Vichy gov't capitulated, they were right wing gov'ts that accomodated fascists, much like most other European counterparts *and* the right wing in the US at the time. Hardly exceptional. In fact, the US refused to help the Spaniards in their fight to save their republic against Franco you'll remember. No? I mean they were hardly the only party to having a soft-spot for fascism at that time.
But I have no idea what you're talking about as 'typical' French culture in any event. For example, French overwhelmingly opposed the US invasion of Iraq. So did the rest of European populations. So I'm not sure what characteristic is unique in their opposition to the invasion of Iraq really. Even the British population was opposed to an invasion w/o UN consent. Certainly this had little to do with 'courage' or other 'cultural' traits as much as a pretty unanimously felt contention across European populations, irrespective of culture, that the war was not a just war and was also unnecessary.
And I'm not sure what's undemocratic about the decision of the French to not join in the official invasion. I mean, gee, their population was overwhelmingly opposed to joining the invasion and thought [correctly as was apparent then and is even more so now] that there was no "WMD" threat that Powell was brandishing as his pretext for UN involvement in the invasion. You have to forget all that to go along with the idea that there was something 'undemocratic' in their decision not to support the war.
At the same time you overlook that the French gov't is really on your side. They support the same goal in Iraq, namely subjecting the economy to privatization and global capitalist investment. I don't really see that much significantly different then in their 'culture' that you believe exists.
Posted by steve at May 30, 2005 04:07 PM
