March 20, 2008
Be VERY VERY Carefull What You Pray For Hillary!!!
Given the contretemps (and yes, I'll give you liberals time to look up that word) that B.Obama has caused with his devotion to his church and his pastor till it became big news, I thought that a repost of a previous photograph would be in order. If nothing else, this underlines the danger of using one's religious fervor in the election process.
And a tip O' The GM Derby to my good friend Chrys!
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August 30, 2007
Another Note to Liberals - Dems Betray U.S.
While the left-wing and liberal Democrats decend upon the men's rooms of Idaho, there is a more serious issue threatening our country--the sell-out of America to foreign nations for Democratic campaign funds. We've seen this with Clinton, Gore, Kerry, Congressional Democats, and back to Clinton II. When I raised the issue of illegal Chinese contributions made to Hillary Cliinton in another thread, this is
how one idiot (a polite term) responded:
reg Says: Has anyone noticed that Woody lambastes Hillary for taking money from “the Chinese”. The guy in question, who proabaly is attempting to stuff Hillary’s coffers via third parties and might well have violated campaign finance lawas - is a New York businessman in the rag trade. But, of course, he’s one of “the Chinese”. The racism is stinking up this thread…
Racism--what a popular but inaccurate way to deflect the truth and attempt to halt debate--whether it's about Chinese espionage, Mexican illegals, profiling Arab terrorists, or criticism of a black quarterback for dog fights.
It doesn't work, and I'm not going to let that pass. Here was my reply:
reg, you're such an idiot. The reference to Chinese was not about a race of people but of a communist nation that threatens both the U.S. and deprives freedom to hundreds of millions of people and pays the Democrats to betray us.
The man in question is from Hong Kong, despite your weak effort to deflect that by saying that he simply is a New York businessman. He also is a fugitive from justice and guilty of grand theft.
China has been engaged in extensive espionage in our country and that nation paid Bill Clinton laundered campaign money to obtain our missile guidance systems, which it uses to aim 13 of its 18 ICBM's at the U.S. and which can now carry ten warheads apiece rather than just one. Remember Johnny Chung?
The Clinton's have sold out American interests for illegal foreign contributions and continue to do so. In addition, Al Gore, John Kerry, and multiple Democrats have benefited from these illegal contributions.
THAT should be your worry rather than phony charges of racism, Idiot.
The Democrats will betray our nation for money--whether it's for campaigns or "services" in retirement. It's happened before, but we need to shine light on this problem so that it doesn't continue to happen. Maybe I'm a "racist" against traitors.
I've got to stop responding to jerks and idiots at liberal sites before G.M. shoots me, as I asked him to do if I did that again. But, the disdain for America by the left-wing and liberals cannot be ignored. In this case, we can honestly say, "It's for the children," whom I do like.
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1
Rather than shoot you, I'll get you a date with an uber liberal hippie. How's that for punishment?
Posted by: GM Roper at Thursday, August 30 2007 05:04 AM (S60yG)
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Well, I'm ashamed to say that the exchange went on a little longer, if you have the stomach to go read the rest of that comment section.
G.M., mental health professionals owe me a great debt. Just with my comments at liberal sites, I create more and more new patients for them every day.
On the date matter, I'd rather be shot.
Posted by: Woody at Thursday, August 30 2007 06:00 AM (Eb/8J)
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Woody said ............
The Clinton’s have sold out American interests for illegal foreign contributions and continue to do so. In addition, Al Gore, John Kerry, and multiple Democrats have benefited from these illegal contributions.
*************************************
I am glad Bush and his Administration has not done anything stupid such as “sell out” any of our interests, i.e. jobs and manufacturing to China.
I know they would never allow the trade deficit to increase with those damn sneaky spying Chinese.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TIRHN_ErYGg
Posted by: sarcastic saib at Thursday, August 30 2007 06:21 AM (3X6vQ)
4
SS, Lou Dobbs is a total idiot and so are the people whose letters he selected to read. They either know or pretend to know nothing about international trade.
We've lost a lot of leverage with China and they hold enough of our debt that they could severely hurt the value of the dollar. Let's hear the great ideas from the Democrats, who are getting their share of the Chinese money.
Posted by: Woody at Thursday, August 30 2007 08:34 AM (Eb/8J)
5
Oh and the other side of the aisle is innocent? If you believe that then Woody I've got some volcanic sanded beach front property in Kansas to sell you. The Repiglicans are just as corrupt. Who has donated to whom is a matter of Public Record. Once you see the rampancy of the corruption then you will understand my outrage at both parties. IMNSHO the Repiglicans long ago sold their souls and most of the Dumbocrats have done so to.
Posted by: psyberwolfe at Thursday, August 30 2007 02:59 PM (xwcQB)
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psy-w, glad you're outraged at both parties. We certainly have Trent Lott and Ted Stevens holding down the Republican side of the corruption business.
It sounds even-handed and open-minded to say that it's equal, and I can't fault a person for making that attempt. But what are the odds that it really is divided 50-50 or even 55-45?
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August 13, 2007
From the "Duh" Files - U.S. and Rome Comparisons
Which of you haven't thought of this already? It's too bad that elected representatives are too cowardly to avoid the long-term issues affected by the current path of our nation.
Learn from the fall of Rome, US warned
The US government is on a “burning platform” of unsustainable policies and practices with fiscal deficits, chronic healthcare underfunding, immigration and overseas military commitments threatening a crisis if action is not taken soon, the country’s top government inspector has warned.
David Walker, comptroller general of the US, issued the unusually downbeat assessment of his country’s future in a report that lays out what he called “chilling long-term simulations”.
These include “dramatic” tax rises, slashed government services and the large-scale dumping by foreign governments of holdings of US debt.
Drawing parallels with the end of the Roman empire, Mr Walker warned there were “striking similarities” between America’s current situation and the factors that brought down Rome, including “declining moral values and political civility at home, an over-confident and over-extended military in foreign lands and fiscal irresponsibility by the central government”.
“Sound familiar?” Mr Walker said. “In my view, it’s time to learn from history and take steps to ensure the American Republic is the first to stand the test of time.”
...“They need to make fiscal responsibility and inter-generational equity one of their top priorities. If they do, I think we have a chance to turn this around but if they don’t, I think the risk of a serious crisis rises considerably”.
However, don't expect to find such comparisons in today's textbooks or in the speeches of candidates. A government is more free to act on how it wants when it keeps people ignorant of history and truth.
If you're interested, here is an actual middle school assignment to help us see our future so that we either can change it or so that we will know what happened when we go down similar paths to ruin.
Take out your pencils and notebooks and start now.
What similarities exist between Rome and the United States?
Do you feel the United States is in the process of decline as a nation?
Assume for the minute that the U.S. is declining in a manner similar to Rome. How would you stop the slide and return the U.S. to its prior greatness?
One rule...senators may not assassinate the nation's executive leader.
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July 30, 2007
Radical Islam Working with the Left
After the fall of the Soviet Union, leaders of American communist groups found a new base in environmentalism from which to attack capitalism. Well, now
the "environmental cause" has found new supporters in militant Islam. Who knew that the two groups would have something in common?
A post by Jennifer Marohasy, brings the connection to our attention. Besides being a nice person and extremely qualified on enviromental issues, she has shown a special interest in the plight of Richard Ness, who was charged and jailed in the environmental/legal struggle associated with these radical groups, and he is still fighting on appeal after winning the initial trial.
Militant Islamic Group Joins Environmental Campaign
Abu Bakar Bashir, the well known spiritual leader of militant Islamic group, Jemaah Islamiya, has now joined forces with Indonesia's largest environmental organisation, WALHI, to protest against US-based mining corporation Newmont.
...It is perhaps not surprising that militant environmental and Islamic organisations are joining forces, they both believe that issues of poverty and corruption are a consequence of capitalism and the exploitation of people and natural resources by large multinational corporations....
Here is even more about the "environmental" group and backer of Democrats, Friends of the Earth, joining forces with the militant Islamic group, Jemaah Islamiya. The two are also fighting to disband the intelligence force that has been successful in arresting key people in the Bali bombing and with links to Al-Qaeda. This information is provided by the son of the accused man in this post: Strange Bedfellows
Even more shockingly (note sarcasm), the arrest and law suit against Richard Ness resulted because of an article by The New York Times, which boasted that they forced the government to take action against this man and the company. Now, they are being sued by him over their false and exaggerated story. Who would have guessed that the NY Times would publish something that is false?
Communists, enviromentalists, Islamic terrorists, The New York Times, and Democrats all in one happy cluster, working together to help each other's causes. We may be even leaving some others out. What does this tell you? Does it even surprise you?
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1
Richard Ness is not my father. I am not related in any way to the Ness family. Could you please correct the above post.
- - -
From Woody:
Sorry, Jen. I'm not sure why I had that impression from the past. The entry is corrected.
Posted by: Jennifer Marohasy at Monday, July 30 2007 01:28 PM (q4H2I)
2
Communists, enviromentalists, Islamic terrorists, The New York Times, and Democrats all in one happy cluster
Conspiracy theories like this are why I can't take you guys seriously.
Posted by: e. nonee moose at Tuesday, July 31 2007 01:56 AM (PMw3Y)
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Moose, give me some credit for being able to link all the names together into one sentence.
Posted by: Woody at Tuesday, July 31 2007 02:29 AM (Eb/8J)
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There are certainly enormous differences and even mutually exclusive goals among those groups, moose. I grant that Woody have oversold it with the idea of helping out each other's
causes, plural. But the single cause of blaming freedom, especially market freedom, for the world's ills does unite them, as is evidenced above.
You find it amazing that a conservative could tie them all together like that. I find it amazing that there is actual evidence to do so. You would think that the patriotic Americans among the enviro/NYT/Dem triad would be at pains to maintain enormous distance from the others.
It's certainly as good a tie as the "America helped the Taliban 30 years ago; we sold Saddam weapons 25 years ago" mantra.
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May 20, 2007
Jimmy Carter Beats Around Bush [Updated]
You know that it's an insult when someones says that President Bush's administration is the worst in history. But, it's a double slap in the face when that criticism comes from, of all people, former President Jimmy Carter--or, maybe that should be a compliment considering the source. Carter is coming across as some old geezer screaming at kids for walking on his lawn.
Jimmy Carter's Legacy
(AP) 'I think as far as the adverse impact on the nation around the world, this administration has been the worst in history. ...The overt reversal of America's basic values as expressed by previous administrations, including those of George H.W. Bush and Ronald Reagan and Richard Nixon and others, has been the most disturbing to me.'
Carter did such a great job with Iran, the Shah, and our embassay hostages. And, why is he going back to attack Nixon? Even Democrats generally give Nixon credit for his foreign policies and his advice to subsequent administrations.
Now, here's another good part of the story.
He spoke while promoting his new audiobook series, "Sunday Mornings in Plains," a collection of weekly Bible lessons from his hometown of Plains, Ga.
Those attacks are really Christian of Jimmy Carter. Maybe he should read lessons on overcoming defeat, anger, and bitterness. Does he look bitter in this picture accompanying the article? Maybe, just a little.

Carter wraps it up by attacking a foreign leader who supports our country, apparently Carter being unable to see that supporting our leader is the same as backing our nation. Well, I guess he might see it and doesn't like that.
Carter also lashed out Saturday at British prime minister Tony Blair. Asked how he would judge Blair's support of Bush, the former president said: 'Abominable. Loyal. Blind. Apparently subservient.'
That's no way to treat a friend.
Well, I'm optimistic that Carter will hang on to the titles of "worst administration overall" and the "worst former president." Double digit inflation, unemployment, and interest rates within our nation during his administration are hard to beat on top of his Iranian disaster, as are the totally unprecedented attacks against our nation and its leaders since he has left office.
[Update]
Bush White House fires back at Jimmy Carter
CRAWFORD, Texas (Reuters) - White House spokesman Tony Fratto...fired back. 'I think it's sad that President Carter's reckless personal criticism is out there. I think it's unfortunate. And I think he is proving to be increasingly irrelevant with these kinds of comments.' ....
Jimmy who?
Posted at 09:00 AM
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Post contains 421 words, total size 3 kb.
1
You know, it's still not too late for Carter to declare his candidacy for 2008...
Posted by: e. nonee moose at Sunday, May 20 2007 09:36 AM (AO5Ch)
2
You're right! Carter could serve another term. Maybe Mondale could be his V.P. again, too.
Posted by: Woody at Sunday, May 20 2007 12:15 PM (v5VVJ)
3
I bloged about this, too, George. I would use the word "chutzpah" to describe President Peanut Farmer's comments, but that would be a major understatement. Truly, this man has no shame.........
Posted by: Bald-Headed Geek at Monday, May 21 2007 12:55 AM (SBnaB)
4
Carter obviously forgot about his own administration. After Nixon, we thought it couldn't get any worse. We were wrong.
Posted by: DADvocate at Monday, May 21 2007 03:21 AM (AIolm)
5
Carter is backing off...
"Former President Jimmy Carter said Monday his remarks were "careless or misinterpreted" when he said the Bush administration has been the "worst in history" for its impact around the world. "
It's a little embarrassing... There's no way you can make a statement with that much conviction and then turn around and try to take it back. I guess he feels it's the right thing to do but my philosophy is that you either stand by what you say or you don't say it.
Posted by: e. nonee moose at Monday, May 21 2007 04:05 AM (dlFaD)
6
And don't forget the Mariel Boatlift debacle. I still have in my possession a letter, dated in 1980, from Carter's government demanding that we pay $210,000 to the government for Cubans brought into the country on my husband's boat. They even enclosed a remittance envelope!
210 people were forced onto my husband's boat in Mariel harbor by Castro's military, grossly overloading it, and then were forced out into the open sea. This is after my husband was held on his boat in Mariel Harbor for 32 days at gunpoint. Jimmah's administration thought it was a good idea to come up with an arbitrary $1000 per head and make *us* pay for the actions of Castro's regime.
What putz.
Posted by: Oyster at Monday, May 21 2007 08:37 AM (p8u67)
Posted by: Woody at Monday, May 21 2007 09:59 AM (v5VVJ)
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April 25, 2007
Rosie Is Leaving - Praise All The Saints
ABC - April 25, 2007 — Rosie O'Donnell is leaving "The View." ABC has been unable to come to a contractual agreement with "The View" co-host. As a result, her duties on the show will come to an end mid-June. 
Let us all sing Hallelujah!!!
H/T: Instapundit
Posted at 03:15 AM
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1
Right-wingers (conservatives/real Americans/whatever you want to call yourselves) seem to care a lot more about daytime TV than left-wingers. Why is that?
Posted by: e. nonee moose at Wednesday, April 25 2007 03:21 AM (dlFaD)
2
Why are you so racist, nonee moose?
Posted by: Ogre at Wednesday, April 25 2007 03:26 AM (oifEm)
3
I NEVER watch daytime TV... but an awful lot of my liberal friends would NEVER miss The View... Why is that?
P.S., I'm just glad that the loud mouth is gone, her reported (on left and right wing blogs) behavior regarding Cheryl Crow's (admittedly dumb) one square proposal was really gross. But hey, that's just this
"Right Wing, Knuckle Dragging, Neandertholic, Conservative's" POV. ;-)
Posted by: GM at Wednesday, April 25 2007 03:26 AM (CglRh)
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Ahem! I could be available...provide a different perspective and all!
I ASSURE you, what I would have to say would blow the top off the ratings charts!
Posted by: Peter Porcupine at Wednesday, April 25 2007 03:54 AM (GFaLW)
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Let them spin it any way they want. She's going, going, and hopefully will be gone and forgotten soon!
Posted by: Faultline USA at Wednesday, April 25 2007 04:16 AM (act6L)
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Why are you so racist, nonee moose?
Hey, it's not like I called him a
nappy-headed ho!!!
Posted by: e. nonee moose at Wednesday, April 25 2007 05:10 AM (dlFaD)
7
I NEVER watch daytime TV... but an awful lot of my liberal friends would NEVER miss The View... Why is that?
I guess it's 'cos we're all unemployed and need something to pass the time during the day between hits of meth.
Seriously, I don't see how Rosie (now matter how loud she is or who she feuds with) is relevant when it comes to a political disucssion.
Posted by: e. nonee moose at Wednesday, April 25 2007 05:13 AM (dlFaD)
8
If you don't watch the garbage, what's the big deal??
I know that pig is offensive loudmouth, but she affects me in no way whatsoever, she's a libber loon, as all the rest of that program is, or so I read, so, here's the deal, don't watch it and you won't be offended...
Don't support their sponsors and don't click the channel...
How simple can it be??
Just like I have told a lot of folks that bitch and moan about MY attitude in MY blog, if ya don't like it, stop reading it, don't click the link and it won't bother you one bit...
Posted by: TexasFred at Wednesday, April 25 2007 05:51 AM (sP2o1)
9
e. nonee moose isn't racist, he/she is sexist because he doesn't care about the quality of TV primarily watched by women. moose, you're a chauvinist pig!
And, moose, Imus is a liberal.
But, the greater issue is how am I going to make up for this loss of material for my blog?
Posted by: DADvocate at Wednesday, April 25 2007 06:14 AM (AIolm)
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Oink!! Oink!!
But you'll never be able to call me a capitalist pig... so there!
Posted by: e. nonee moose at Wednesday, April 25 2007 07:23 AM (dlFaD)
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Because she's an obese, obscene, objectionable and abominable showman who has proven nothing except just how much of a sewer her mouth is, in connection with a brain drunk on Bush Derangement Syndrome, complicated by Blame America First disease.
We will leave the issue of her sexuality out of this, except to say that if she were the only woman on earth,I'd take a swan dive into the nearest canyon to avoid the nightmare to follow.
Rosie is proof that it is possible to speak with one's head firmly jammed up her ass, farting garbage every thirty seconds and screaming abuse at America whilst singing the praises of terrorist nations.
One look at her in the morning would be enough to turn the hardiest of people into an alcoholic riddled with demented nightmares for eternity.
No one will ever say they will miss her..considering who she is, nothing short of a cruise missile set on heat seek would miss her.
Is it true that the day she went swimming at the local beach, Greenpeace showed up?
Posted by: Sonnabend at Wednesday, April 25 2007 08:53 AM (DCuWQ)
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I don't like Rosie O'Donnell in the slightest and I'm glad she is leaving when her "contract expires" in June.
However, let's leave the name calling and personal attacks on age, weight or general appearance to the Kos kids contingent, shall we? I thought we were better than that.
If she were drop dead gorgeous, her mind would still be a toxic waste dump!
Posted by: Gayle Miller at Wednesday, April 25 2007 08:57 AM (fa58m)
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January 29, 2007
A Year Plus Later, And Little Has Changed!
Surfing through some of my old posts looking for nothing in particular, I came across an old post that is a little more than a year old. Hence, the title of this post. I re-present it here for your edification and comment.
"Surfing through the internet today, I came across Instapundit who had an interesting little title up: Little Boxes. Said title noted a follow up to his Tech Central Station column on urban sprawl.
"But I digress, what caught my eye, and engaged my memory was the title "Little Boxes" and my mind instantly (perhaps the intent of the Instapundit?) was taken back to Pete Seeger circa 1963 when he sang:
Little boxes on the hillside,
Little boxes made of ticky-tacky,
Little boxes, little boxes,
Little boxes, all the same.
There's a green one and a pink one
And a blue one and a yellow one
And they're all made out of ticky-tacky
And they all look just the same.
And the people in the houses
All go to the university,
And they all get put in boxes,
Little boxes, all the same.
And there's doctors and there's lawyers
And business executives,
And they're all made out of ticky-tacky
And they all look just the same.
And they all play on the golf-course,
And drink their Martini dry,
And they all have pretty children,
And the children go to school.
And the children go to summer camp
And then to the university,
And they all get put in boxes
And they all come out the same.
And the boys go into business,
And marry, and raise a family,
And they all get put in boxes,
Little boxes, all the same.
There's a green one and a pink one
And a blue one and a yellow one
And they're all made out of ticky-tacky
And they all look just the same.
"Maybe you don't remember this song, maybe you do. I remember it because I was then in my senior year in high school living with my parent's a stone's throw from the Potomac River and just down river from Washington D.C. The neighborhood was staunchly middle class, with carports not garages, postage size back yards, and every 10
th house of roughly the same design. Little boxes indeed. Not much of a hillside though. The years were of protest songs, Hootnanny was a popular TV show, folk singers all the rage and the Beatles had not been totally crowned as the kings of pop music then. In fact, there were still a lot of Buddy Holly fans around. But the protest songs... ahhhh, the protest songs.. "If I Had A Hammer;" "Where Have All The Flowers Gone?" and so many others. The Halcyon days of conformity, of Bass Weejun shoes, wool socks with matching colored shirts. Madras Plaids, narrow ties. '61, '62, and '63.
"Then, Kennedy was assassinated and the upheaval began for many of us. Vietnam, drugs, sex and rock and roll. Nehru Jackets, Bell Bottoms, and Beads, oh yes, the Beads.
"Again, I digress and as I write this, the tinkle of "Little Boxes" continues to run through my head. I followed Glenn Reynolds link to "Albion's Seedlings" and this article by James C. BennettTicky-Tacky
"It seems as though Pete Seeger didn't write that song, though I can't remember why I thought he did, it was written by Malvina Reynolds who was at the time a member of the Communist Party, USA. Bennett states:
The political context of the song was interesting. Right after World War Two, the Communist Party USA, seeking to capitalize on its wartime link to "our ally, Uncle Joe Stalin", launched a big organizing drive around one of the major general complaints of the time, which was the lack of available housing. The CPUSA's drive was centered on demands for a gigantic government housing program to build government-owned "worker's apartments". This drive quickly petered out as the veteran's housing loan program and rapid suburban development rapidly produced millions of single-family houses, to the delight of returning veterans and wartime workers who had been renting chicken coops and trailers.
Bennett follows with this:
"It also marks the Left's shift from critiquing the market economy for producing too little, to critiquing it for producing too much -- substituting an aesthetic critique for an economic one. This in turn was a symptom of the collapse of any trace of a working-class base for the hard Left, and its replacement by a bohemian-intellectual base.
"Collapse of any trace of a working-class base for the hard Left, and its replacement by a bohemian-intellectual base." Well, one would think then, that the left and Liberal would be (and indeed are) two different things. Reading Daily Kos, Democratic Underground and many other leftist sites, it is hard to imagine a bigger divide between those folk and the Liberals of the 40s and early 50s and mid 60s. In fact, the left today (not necessarily liberals) are all but indistinguishable from the tyrannies of the Soviets. They are ardently anti-capitalist, vociferously anti-American, and seemingly bereft of common sense. I remember when solid Liberalism (with a capital L) was anti-fascist, now the left (little l) decry our war against the islamo-fascists. The seeds of the movement were sown in the minds of pseudo intellectuals who have continued to expand their thoughtless tirades against everything that smacks of free choice. I remember when Liberals stood against discrimination, against the bashing of gays, and sometimes even in favor of equal rights for women (although, truth be told, my mother was a feminist long before Bella Abzug discovered hats) and insisted she get (and she always got) equal treatment and respect from even the most chauvinistic pig (though there were a few that tried to out think her - trust me, it couldn't be done cause I tried so many times and mom was a card carrying Republican.)
"Now, the left supports the pali's and the "insurgents" and states that the only reason terrorists are in Iraq are because the US invaded and booted Saddam Hussein. What sophomoric nonsense.
"I mourn the real Liberals in this country, the ones that stood for human dignity and responsibility and freedom and understanding and free markets and lower taxes and international relations based on what was right, not what was easy or had the greatest support. Oh, wait, I don't need to do that, to mourn that is, their title has changed. Now, they are called Neo-Cons and Conservatives. Cool.
"And so, my little thought experiment/reminiscing has run it's course. From Little Boxes to Pete Seeger, to the CPUSA, to bohemians, to classical Liberalism to leftists to the War on Terror and the destruction of common sense in the hard left. Isn't it interesting what seeing an entry on a blog in the internet can do?"
A tip 'O The GM Derby
to The Assistant Village Idiot for the concept.
Posted at 02:56 PM
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1
While James Bennett makes an excellent point about the essence of the metamorphosis from the old left into the new left, I find it odd that he would trace this shift to Malvina's song, as Malvina always maintained an "old left" communist-labor sensibility, coupled with a feisty spirit. Her music was personal first and political second. Frankly I think she simply thought these Daly City houses were ugly, and then went on from there by association to criticize conformity and bourgeoise values.
The theme of conformity was a widespread topic of intellectual discussion in that era. Malvina wrote her song in 1960, Whyte's
The Organization Man was written in 1956, and L'Engle's
A Wrinkle in Time was published in 1962. Nothing particularly radical in itself about critiquing conformity in 1960.
I think Bennett is a bit too early (as well as off target with Malvina). Rather, I would trace the rise of Bennett's
bohemian-intellectual base to the Free Speech Movement of 1964 and the rise of the new left on college campuses populated by children of the middle class, in distinction to the trade unionists that formed the base of the old left.
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November 24, 2006
Beware of Democrats Changing Voting Methods
Whenever
Democrats want a change in the voting process, you can bet that it's not because they actually believe the change is fair or that it is good for democracy. One recent notable case was trying to make every Arizona voter eligible for a million dollar lottery.
Vote for us! We'll give you a million dollars! There are many cases of rushing to register illegal aliens and multiple law suits to fight voter identification laws.
Sure we'll let you vote without an ID, but you better have one to buy cigarettes! They know that illegal votes and fraud helps Democrats. You do, too.
The latest crusade for voting change comes from Oregon's Democratic Secretary of State Bill Bradbury, who is writing and campaigning with other Democrats and the usual suspects to have all states adopt the new Oregon voting process of vote by mail. Watch out.
more...
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Post contains 957 words, total size 7 kb.
1
If it was up to me, we'd go on using the old system. Vote-by-mail is just plain stupid, as are the concepts of not needing ID to vote or allowing illegal aliens and convicted felons to vote.
Today, "Democrat" is pretty well the same thing as "fraud", anyway. They do whatever they have to to win elections, rules, regs, legalities and fairness need not apply.
The MSM being what it is, for example, we didn't read or hear much about a lot of expatriate NY Dems living in Florida who, in 2000, voted at the polls in Fla and again by absentee ballot in NY, in numbers exceeding those cited in the "hanging chad" kerfuffle, all we heard was accusations of "foul" against the Republicans.
Posted by: Seth at Friday, November 24 2006 01:47 PM (r1vdM)
2
I agree in general. But in NH the Democrats are moving to eliminate straight-ticket voting, which helped them this time.
I acknowledge that there may be a calculation that it usually works against them in NH, but wanted to give credit where I could.
Posted by: Assistant Village Idiot at Friday, November 24 2006 03:31 PM (1w197)
3
First let me link to Instapundit ( http://instapundit.com/archives2/2006/11/post_517.php )
In Kentucky alone, out of 200,000 voters, 7000 are known to be deceased, and that doesn't count those with birthdates in the 1800's or 01/01/01. Another 5600 are registered twice in the state. The technology to detect and correct this type of thing has been around for literally decades, but nothing ever gets done about it. Why is that? Because those in power don't want it corrected. Its tough for dead people to vote if they're not on the voter rolls, no matter what the method of voting, eh?
Posted by: Vulgorilla at Saturday, November 25 2006 05:10 AM (5AfaV)
4
During the last election for Governor in Washington state, there was plenty of voter fraud by mail.
Dead people, illegal immigrants, people voting more than once, felons voting (some from prison).
Oddly, the lions share was for the Democratic candidate.
Imagine that.
New state motto: Vote early, vote often, vote Democrat!
Posted by: Ben USN (Ret) at Saturday, November 25 2006 05:38 AM (yYgeh)
5
Vulgorilla, you reminded me of a similar post on this site from last March with a focus on Wisconsin.
http://gmroper.mu.nu/archives/172185.php
Ben, the governor's election in Washington state was won by the Republicans but the Democratic judges kept allowing recount after recount using different criteria and newly discovered and unsecured ballots until they got enough to put the Democrat in.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Washington_gubernatorial_election,_2004
http://www.opinionjournal.com/diary/?id=110006543
I guess the slogan, "Count every vote and every vote counts" is really a hollow cry of the Democrats. When Democrats control the process, legitimate votes lose value to those illegal ones--sort of like counterfeit money reduces the value of real money.
Strange that the Democrats don't worry about voter fraud when they win and strange that the press doesn't pursue Democratic fraud. Not really. It's what I've come to expect.
I don't have time, but maybe someone could pull a lot of the Democratic voter fraud posts together for a more comprehensive overview and discussion.
At least we need to be aware of their tactics to fight them on future elections.
Posted by: Woody at Saturday, November 25 2006 06:16 AM (v5VVJ)
6
You are right, Woody.
The Republican won, but we ended up with a Democrat, who immediately broke her campaign promise not to raise taxes, by raising taxes as soon as she moved in to the Governors mansion..
There were many military absentee ballots that were not counted (I wonder why?) along with the perpetually appearing "lost" boxes of ballots from King county (Seattle liberalville).
Here they have a mixture of mail-in ballots and regular voting booths, depending onwhere you live.
Posted by: Ben USN (Ret) at Saturday, November 25 2006 07:43 AM (yYgeh)
7
OH! And get this! John Kerry paid for the 3rd recount!
Democrat loses 2 out of 3 and still wins. Ugh!
Posted by: Ben USN (Ret) at Saturday, November 25 2006 07:48 AM (yYgeh)
8
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Posted by: DRF at Sunday, November 26 2006 12:44 AM (UZfH0)
9
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October 29, 2006
New Halloween Masks Available At Your Local Merchant

A tip 'O The GM Derby
to Mikes America
Posted at 03:34 PM
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1
Ack! I was sitting at my desk with coffee in hand. I checked in at your site and---wham! A parade of horrors! Give me a warning next time. I about lost it.
Posted by: Mike Austin at Sunday, October 29 2006 09:02 PM (Ih/+T)
2
Janet Reno's mask always scared me. It comes with accessories of assault weapons and torches. And, what about Ruth Bader Ginsburg? Her looks are scary enough, but she also cites incantations of international Halloween laws to force us into submission. Then, there's the Dan Rather mask that is fake but an accurate representation of him. Let's hope that Halloween with them is more scary than what we'll see on election day.
Posted by: Woody at Monday, October 30 2006 12:04 AM (v5VVJ)
3
Common spew alert GM, please warn us.
This site is no longer safe for kids....
Posted by: Michael at Monday, October 30 2006 01:56 AM (pkkrm)
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I'm glad none of my kids were looking over my shoulder. Heck,
I may have trouble getting to sleep tonight.
Posted by: DADvocate at Monday, October 30 2006 02:52 AM (AIolm)
5
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October 25, 2006
Did Europe Ever Like America?
I shrug off
Europe's criticism of the U.S., simply because I know that Europeans do it in great part because they are envious of us; plus, they do it so much that their criticism has lost its effect--at least, with rational people. What do I care what they think, as we have a lot better batting average than do they. However, I read something the other day that led me to realize that this disdain (maybe a better word than hate) started long ago.
Go back to Colonial America. Because of an abundance of wood from land clearing, settlers often constructed zig-zag fences, which were sturdy but might require almost eight-thousand logs per mile. That was considered wasteful by European standards, where they had earlier stripped their forests.
Here's where I realized that Europe's disdain for America existed long ago. I went on to read that a London newspaper in 1780 discussed America's "mania for enclosure" and went on to say, "The stripping of forests to build fortifications around personal property is a perfect example of the way those people in the New World live and think." How petty, and I suppose that our claim to independence didn't endear us to them, either.
Not much as changed in Europe's petty attacks against us today, and the descendants of "those people" in the U.S. still do things the way we want--because we can, and it's what's best for us.
So, the next time that you hear, "In Europe they do it a better way" or "America is always wrong," don't worry or give in to it. It's their problem--not ours. Be proud that our system is successful and that we live in a land that has become the envy of the world.
I think I'll go build a zig zag fence, because it seems right at this time.
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1
With your guy's regime appearing more and more discredited, wholly bankrupt in the eyes of most, and in a state of rapid decline (even bush is distancing himself from his policies these days) its no surprise that you choose to duck debates at coopers confining yourself instead to your own echoe chambers. that said i thought you fellas might find this interesting
A Short History of The Bush Administration
Posted by: ahmed at Wednesday, October 25 2006 06:25 PM (At5bL)
2
Ahmed: its no surprise that you choose to duck debates at coopers confining yourself instead to your own echoe chambers. How silly, you are here to debate aren't you? Does that make you part of the echo chamber? I still read cooper daily, and the comments as well and nothing has changed. When a conservative posts his thoughts, the peanut gallery composed of folk like you jump down the conservatives throat, disparage his person (but seldom his argument) and otherwise act like adolescents gathering in a coffee house and arguing just because they like the sound of their own voices.
If you want true debate, come here, we argue ideas, not personalities. Your comment here and my response (as well as the responses of others in other threads) are fairly good proof of that.
Sorry Ahmed, close but no cigar for you!
Posted by: GM at Thursday, October 26 2006 12:32 AM (S60yG)
3
Ahmed, as a famous orator once said, "It ain't over 'til it's over." We've seen what a Democratic "regime" has done for our national security and our military in the past. Eventually, it always takes the Republicans to end the foreign conflicts that Democrats started or didn't finish.
It's so funny to say that
we duck debates at Cooper's. Perhaps you never read Ann Coulter's book on arguing with liberals. One might as well be talking to a wall. And, as to who is ducking debates or talking nonsense, consider this:
http://marccooper.com/closed-until-tues-august-22nd/#comments
Michael Turner:
I suggest: ignoring Woody the Troll. ...A guy who can accuse someone like reg (articulate, open-minded, and, last I checked, citizen of a liberal democracy) of living in a world as insular as the Cuba of Woody’s imagination? ...Just ignore him. He comes here only to vent, and to get attention. Just ignore him.
Bubba:
You mean ignore him by devoting a whole thread — from now until Aug 22nd — to what a bonehead he is? Or isn’t? Okay, I’m in. I say he is. Let’s discuss.
Woody:
It’s so funny that Michael Turner wants people to ignore me, and yet he used his entire comment to discuss me. Michael, there’s another world out there–the real world–and, you can stay ignorant believing that leftists have all the answers and that they could push them through if only voices from the right were silenced or ignored. Think what this country would actually be like if the proposals of liberals were all implemented. Yikes! ....
Michael Balter:
Michael, in regards to Woody: Some months ago a handful of us agreed to do what you suggest, ignore Woody, and in the end we found that it was impossible because like it or not he is part of the life of this blog. My own view is that Woody represents a trend in rightwing thought that is almost willfully ignorant, but unfortunately is adhered to by many millions of Americans. So, sorry, can’t agree to snub Woody, he is too good an example of the ignorance and stupidity so widespread in America and which extends to its very highest levels of leadership. ...In fact, thinking about this further, I think a more interesting discussion would be for those of us who disagree with Woody and his ilk to try to understand why they can continue to hold the views they do in the face of overwhelming evidence that they are full of s**t.
Woody:
Despite many incorrect observations about myself from you on the left, I’m not a very interesting subject to discuss–especially, when you can sit around in your mutual admiration society trying to out-impess everyone and getting confirmation of your beliefs despite being wrong and despite all reason to the contrary. What I think is significant about our differences is how we arrive at conclusions, which I’ve covered before. People on the left will say that Bush was the brilliant and sinister mind behind the 9-11 attack on the WTC, and turn around and say how stupid he was as he continued reading to a classroom of kids after being told of those attacks. Smart and stupid? Your minds work in wondrous ways. We can argue about “facts”–but I mean real facts, not a lot of make-believe that comes from tainted and misleading liberal sources. If given the exact same information and if that information is correct, a conservative would come away with a more logical analysis than would a liberal. You can take that to the bank.
reg:
Yeah, this is why we were told that the Iraq war would be a “cakewalk”.... ...the cost estimates of the war have been consistently wrong.
Woody:
Regarding war costs, the cost of any war cannot be predicted realistically. Take, for example, the Democrats’ war on poverty that has run into the trillions and is still not conquered.
Woody:
Balter, there is too much inbreeding in your ranks when you and others buddy up and always think that you’re right and somehow prevail, and I really had to laugh when you discussed contradicting me. The phony superiority of the left knows no ends. You must understand that I don’t respect the views of the left, for good reason based on its history, and I can only roll my eyes as you guys espouse wondrous thoughts that may make you feel good but are simply foolish to rational minds. It’s like watching a Democratic convention when Ted Kennedy speaks and the loyal supporters wet their pants with glee with every repetitive, anti-Republican chant that he starts and builds in a crescendo.
Samual Stott:
love this meme about how Woody is neither a genuine conservative nor a respectable spokesman for the American Right nor for American Republicans. He is all of these. Beyond that, he is brave and admirable for giving as good as he gets without resorting to personal insults. (Personal; Personal; Personal). Multi-culuralism only goes so far, eh? You can find kind and extenuating words for Jihadis who advocate executing infidels, Christians and Jews, who advocate clit-chopping and execution of “warm brothers,” as the Germans say, but Woody? Man, Woody is really the problem! Woody is the most stand-up guy on this blog.
Woody:
Samuel (not Stott above), no I don’t care for attention and what’s sad and adolescent, to use your words, is that you would attack me personally rather than address the point that I made. But, I’m used to it, as that is par for the course from the left side of the political spectrum. It’s just that I noticed that when Marc left the thread open to his commenters, the liberals took over and, as you tried with me, drove others away–as is often the case when a vacuum exists in any organization. ...Forgive me for expressing my opinion once you guys on the left claimed this comment section for your own. And, you wonder why liberal talk radio fails.
reg:
I find it hard to believe a discussion of Noam Chomsky...would seem obscure to a right-winger, since he’s routinely demonized and put forward by your crowd as an example of how loonytoons the mentality of anyone and everyone on the left is. ...Also, why bother when football season is upon us…Why don’t you do Marc’s hits a favor here by posting links to the Heisman Hopefuls ?
Woody:
reg, nope. I don’t read Chomsky and neither does 99+ percent of Americans. There is another life out there, and I’m not going to spend my time trying to keep up with everything and everyone discussed in the Daily Kos, for which this has become an extension in the last few days. And, I’m confident that more Americans can tell you who won the Heisman Trophy than anything about Chomsky–and, that’s good. But, since I’m very proficient at using google, here’s what I found as one of the first links: Noam Chomsky--"If George Bush were to be judged by the standards of the Nuremberg Tribunals, he’d be hanged. So too, mind you, would every single American President since the end of the second world war, including Jimmy Carter." Uh, huh…. Good reading there. That kind of thinking is worth less than the time that it took me to type this.
Wall:
Yes, obscure to Woody might be any book without a lot of good pictures. Woody, I’m no big Chomsky fan; but he is one of the most debated and read voices on the left. ...your a conservative, a word which alas has degenerated, thanks to people like you, into shorthand for “know nothing slob.”
Woody:
bunkerbuster, if you will allow me to join the wine and cheese club for a moment, the little that I have read of Chomsky doesn’t impress me. He’s a cheerleader for the left, sort of like reg is here, but his statements are a little dishonest and his positions go to the point of being ridiculous–sort of like reg, too. The left claims heroes because of their extremism–not for any substance. Think about that. It’s true.
Woody:
reg, the “mission accomplished” banner is an over-used, grasping-at-straws, meaningless attempt by Democrats to discredit the success of our troops, led by Bush, in moving into Iraq’s capital and overthrowing Hussein. That’s what it did. I think that it’s entirely appropriate to recognize and honor our troops when they have accomplished their missions–which those troops had. But, someone who does not support the troops would not care and would put politics above honor. Maybe you would prefer to keep kicking vets from Korea, Viet Nam, and Somalia, just as you do those in Iraq, for not finishing their jobs as you see it–just to gain a political point.
reg:
F**k you, you disgusting moron. If you want to attack people for not supporting the troops and putting politics above honor, you can start with the little s**t Bush, Cheney and Don Rumsfeld who have consistently left our troops hang out to dry in Iraq from day one. People like you disgrace this country with your steady stream of political revisionism to cover your sorry asses.
Woody:
Hey, reg. The soldiers in Iraq like to keep up with college football and those players in the running for the Heisman Trophy. In fact, they enjoy it and have games beamed to them. Should we stop letting the soldiers watch football so that they can spend more time worrying about George W. Bush and Iraq? I bet that you think they’re stupid for watching games, don’t you? Is it that the soldiers don’t have anything more important to worry about, or is it that you mock those who enjoy other aspects of life because you think you only what concerns you, to the exclusion of everything else, is important–which is your all consuming hatred for our President and the Commander-in-Chief of our armed forces. Well, if that’s the case, you can stop. ...Maybe things will go better in Iraq once the radical left and the Democrats (hard to tell them apart) quit giving hope to the terrorists and encouraging them to hang on–like they, Kerry, and Fonda did on Viet Nam. If you guys support our troops (which you don’t), then quit helping the enemy.
Wall:
Woody, like the dithering dittohead you will always be, you were finished before you got started. But I’d LOVE for you to post some more of your Fraud evidence against Kerry. The champion of W, the Babe Ruth of draft dodgers, spits on a Vietnam vet once again!
Bubba:
Hey, I was outa town a few days and now there are way too many posts for me catch up. How did that “let’s ignore woody” thing work out?
Woody:
reg, do you enjoy being miserable all the time?
Ahmed, that was near the end of my posting at Coopers. I haven't ducked debates and it's clear that a lot of Cooper's commenters wanted to duck them with me. At least, I've learned to use my time more wisely.
P.S. Regarding Europe hating America...any thoughts, since that was the topic?
Posted by: Woody at Thursday, October 26 2006 01:03 AM (v5VVJ)
4
They could have shortened that whole skit to
"Woody's a conservative - and we hate conservatives." Just a bunch of generelized
ignorance and stupidity, full of s**t, willfully ignorant, know nothing slob, F**k you, you disgusting moron, ... blah,blah,blah.
And it's no wonder that one who identifies with the far left has such a profound understanding of that bastion of excellence and erudite intellectualism, Noam Chomsky, and would lean heavily on his work to make their points because Chomsky, if nothing else, is an avowed communist.
Let's take for instance Chomsky's recent article on the Israeli/Lebanese conflict. He begins with an immediate presupposition posed as fact;
"Though there are many interacting factors, the immediate issue that lies behind the latest US-Israeli invasion of Lebanon remains, I believe, what it was in the four preceding invasions: the Israel-Palestine conflict."
Interestingly, Chomsky begins, with his first sentence, labeling the conflict as a
US-Israeli invasion of Lebanon. Not the Israeli invasion of Lebanon - not the Israeli invasion of Iranian and Syrian backed Hizballah controlled Southern Lebanon - not the Israeli retaliation for a Hizballah incursion into Israeli territory to kidnap and kill Israeli soldiers - not even the US backed Israeli invasion of Iranian and Syrian backed Hizballah controlled Southern Lebanon.
No. Just simply the Great Satan and the Little Satan attack on poor Lebanon who took the brunt of Israeli aggression over their frustration with another entity, the Palestinians.
Puhleeze.
This is the kind of rhetoric that Chomsky regularly engages in. He sets the tone with his own view set forward as absolute fact and off he goes. This is the kind of rhetoric that causes many to immediately reject his arguments, unless of course one already harbors the view that the US and Israel are the evil ones and everyone else is just a victim of unwarranted aggression. If he can't be intellectually honest enough to give it a proper label from the start then he can't be intellectually honest enough to be objective beyond that point.
There are two sides to every issue and Chomsky goes to great lengths to ignore the the fact that the Israeli/Palestinian conflict has been a cycle of violence for far longer than he's been alive or even his great grandparents.
And that's just the very tip of the iceberg that is Chomsky. I won't even go into his love affair with communism. Let me just suffice it to say that he talks big (and smugly) for one who enjoys all the capitalistic pleasures of the US.
And to try hard to tie this in with the subject of the original posting - Europe is full of Chomskys. (I know, weak attempt) And that's just a general statement. Because there are many in Europe who do not hold such disdain for the US or Americans. We just don't hear from them much because the vast majority of the media is on Chomsky's side of the spectrum.
Posted by: Oyster at Thursday, October 26 2006 05:24 AM (BGgmD)
5
And ahmed:
We are a republic with democratically elected representation. The word "regime", wile meaning
a form of government is almost always reserved for those which are dictatorial or fascist in nature. So we get your point, but last I checked our current government was democratically elected and there was a fairly even split in political expression reflected in the vote. Sometimes we have more liberal representation, sometimes not.
Would you use the word "regime" to describe the Clinton administration, or the Carter administration? If you're going to be true to the definition, then I would expect you to use it more "liberally". Fat chance though, huh? Furthermore, Bush is not Hitler and conservatives are not evil. Understand?
Posted by: Oyster at Thursday, October 26 2006 05:42 AM (BGgmD)
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July 24, 2006
Nobel “Peace” Laureate: “Kill Bush for the Children.”
You win Nobel Peace Prizes by saying bad things about the U.S. You might win two if you say that you want to kill the U.S. President, too. According to
this article,
Nobel peace laureate Betty Williams, campaigning for “children’s rights,” said the following to a group of young people on “Education Day” at an
international event focusing on world peace.
Right now, I would love to kill George Bush. Her young audience at the Brisbane City Hall clapped and cheered.
God help the world when youth of today are led by a leftist activist this irrational and who wants our President dead—at her own hands, at that! But, maybe she forgot that V.P. Cheney would become President in that case, and you simply cannot go around killing Presidents until you finally get to a Democrat. I think there’s a law against that.
Again, as we often ask, what would be the reaction if a conservative had made a similar statement about a Democratic President? The left appears more nuts every day.
Oh, and for good measure, the “Nobel peace laureate” threw this one in:
There can be no sustainable peace if we fail to rise to the global challenge presented by climate change.
Remember, (1) killing Bush and (2) achieving peace through global warming are “for the children.” Does the left do
anything that isn’t for the children—except abort them?
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Posted by: chrys at Monday, July 24 2006 07:19 PM (T6n7z)
2
"except abort them?" Ha ha!
No, the Left doesn't. It just acts like them!
Posted by: Jeremayakovka at Tuesday, July 25 2006 04:54 AM (q9+vw)
3
Woody,
This post of yours is grossly inaccurate on so many levels. What makes you think this woman represents all leftists or
any Democrats for that matter?
you simply cannot go around killing Presidents until you finally get to a Democrat
Rubbish! She's not even American, she's Irish and this speech was made in Austrailia, not the USA. It has absolutely NOTHING do to with the Democratic party. It has absolutely NOTHING to do with the majority of liberals in this country.
Christ, you sound like an Ann Coulter retread, Woody! Surely you can do better than that...
Posted by: e. nonee moose at Tuesday, July 25 2006 02:05 PM (LqapJ)
4
Moose, I see your point and I did bring her comments to a more local level--but, she was talking about
our president.
This woman is clearly a leftist (not the same as liberal), and I haven't seen people of that persuasion jumping up to condemn her. Even you made other points and left out an acknowledgment that what she said was despicable. It's like people in the religion of Islam. They say nothing when terrorists of their religion strike. Silence is acceptance.
I'm comfortable that she would not make this statement with a Democrat in office, and I'm comfortable that more than one Democrat has wished that Bush were dead.
Still, I appreciate your comment and agree that my point went to conclusions, not necessarily wrong ones, beyond her immediate attack.
Posted by: Woody at Wednesday, July 26 2006 12:41 AM (v5VVJ)
5
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March 23, 2006
Fraud audit cuts 105,000 from voter roll / Democrats expect to lose 105,000 loyal voters
After major reports of vote fraud in Milwaukee, an audit was conducted, which led to a
cut in the voter roll by 105,000 names. Just
which party do you think this might hurt? Keep reading.
This review was long overdue and really needs to be expanded to the entire state because of past voting irregularities in Wisconsin, as noted by others.
Voting: "You believe me, don't you?�
Well, it turns out â€Å“till death do you partâ€ÂÂ� may be true in marriage, but not when voting for Democrats. The dead are very loyal Democrats.
Racine, Kenosha voter application fraud alleged
Project Vote, a national non-profit group headed by the former head of the Ohio Democratic Party, is among several non-profit groups that have run large-scale voter registration drives in southeastern Wisconsin. ...Last week, the Journal Sentinel reported that two of Project Vote's workers in Milwaukee are felons on probation, which makes it illegal for them to register voters. ...The workers also told the investigator that Jones had pressured them to meet a quota of completing at least 25 voter registration applications per day. The workers were paid $49 per day plus $1.50 for each application beyond the quota. Blakely also told the investigator that, to meet the quota, he completed voter registration applications by taking names from a phone book.
Wis. Gov. Vows Veto on Voter ID Bill
Wisconsin lawmakers passed a bill Wednesday that would require voters to provide a driver's license or other government-issued photo identification before casting a ballot. Democratic Gov. Jim Doyle said he would veto the measure.
Liberal Vote Fraud Must Be Stopped!
Democrat Party voter fraud is nothing new. In 2000 it was widespread. In at least two states, Wisconsin and Missouri, it tipped the electoral vote to Gore.
Fraud File: Poll Challengers OK'd
After battling over as many as 37,000 votes, the Wisconsin Republican Party and the city of Milwaukee have agreed that a list of 5,512 prospective voters with questionable addresses will be sent to poll workers to flag those people when they come to vote.
How Democrats Steal Elections - Top 10 Methods of Liberal Vote Fraud
Vote-buying. Purchasing votes has long been a traditional scheme by Democrats, and not just with money. In the 2000 election in Milwaukee, Wisconsin, Democratic workers initiate a "smokes-for-votes" campaign in which they paid dozens of homeless men with cigarettes if they cast ballots for Al Gore (Milwaukee Journal-Sentinel, 11/14/00).
Vote Fraud And Illegal Voting In Wisconsin
Shortly after the November 2 vote in which John Kerry carried Wisconsin’s 10 electoral votes by 11,384 votes, the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel began an investigation into vote fraud and irregularities in the city. The Journal Sentinel soon revealed that thousands more ballots were cast than people identified as voting and thousands of ballots were cast from invalid addresses around the city.
In 2002, Democrat Wisconsin Governor Jim Doyle’s campaign held a bingo party at a home for the mentally ill and reportedly used quarters as bingo prizes and kringle and soft drinks to induce residents of the facility to cast absentee ballots.
But, if the Democrats lose 105,000 voters, they can turn it around and implement their new plan for success--slashing the tires of Republicans going to vote. That's one method that they found works and with no chances of being convicted.
Should anyone wonder why I don't trust Democrats?
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1
It is well to remember the fraud in Wisconsin whenever the accusations of stolen elections emerges.
The frauds in Philadelphia tipped the battleground state of PA to the Democrats as well.
Posted by: Assistant Village Idiot at Thursday, March 23 2006 09:20 AM (bfKow)
2
How do you know that all (or even a significant percentage) of the 105,000 on the list were active voters? How do you know they are all Democrats?
Posted by: E. Nonee Moose at Thursday, March 23 2006 09:44 AM (CK7f1)
3
Moose, this isn't a scientific study. However, it was the Republicans who fought to have this problem addressed, while the Democrats tried to stonewall it. I'm exaggerating but making a point based upon general perceptions and the sides taken.
Posted by: Woody at Thursday, March 23 2006 09:53 AM (v5VVJ)
4
I would also add in that the districts involved are heavily democratic. That's not proof, but it's evidence.
Posted by: Assistant Village Idiot at Thursday, March 23 2006 03:32 PM (bfKow)
5
Well, if the bulk of the voters purged from the system are democrat or republican, they'd better get crackin' to build up that base again. November draws nigh. Just how many cemeteries are there in Milwaukee?
Posted by: Oyster at Friday, March 24 2006 05:10 AM (MkwVi)
6
The Democratic Party has a tradition of this kind of thing. Remember Lyndon Johnson?
Posted by: Always On Watch at Saturday, March 25 2006 01:12 AM (aIFaX)
7
Noonee I don't know if you clicked the link or not but whether these people were Dems or Republicans this was serious incompetence to leave these names on the rolls.
Look at this amazing statistic from the AP article woody linked to:
The number amounted to about 23 percent of the 450,000 names that were on the voter rolls.
23%! of the total number of voters on the rolls were bad names or addresses? That is scary.
Posted by: The Ugly American at Saturday, March 25 2006 12:13 PM (ZXV2N)
8
"Democrat Party voter fraud is nothing new. In 2000 it was widespread. In at least two states, Wisconsin and Missouri, it tipped the electoral vote to Gore."
Actually, Missouri went for Bush by over 78,000 votes. Gore won Wisconsin by less than 6,000 votes. Missouri and Wisconsin were each worth 11 electoral votes. Jus' pickin' nits, is all.
Posted by: Tuning Spork at Sunday, March 26 2006 04:01 PM (On7NY)
9
Trust me. It was the democrats.
Posted by: Tracy at Sunday, March 26 2006 04:50 PM (+GVTV)
10
Thanks, Tuning Spork! It's not nitpicking. I've made the correction in the entry.
Posted by: Woody at Monday, March 27 2006 03:35 PM (+qa0h)
11
That is true. I should have noted that in Missouri, it was John Ashcroft's Senate seat that was stolen, not any presidential electoral votes.
Posted by: Assistant Village Idiot at Tuesday, March 28 2006 12:32 PM (bfKow)
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March 06, 2006
Academic Reform -- Can We Trust the Professors?
I've never suggested reading an op-ed from "The New York Times"-until now. And, I'm doing this because an op-ed contributor got something right rather than half-cocked in the wrong direction. What's even more scary to me is that I even agree with a statement in the article by radical Harvard law professor
Alan Dershowitz. The issue has to do with
problems in the field of academics--partly about the
forced resignation of Harvard University's President Lawrence H. Summers, who was tarred and feathered by liberal professors, and it has to do with
the future of who runs our universities. The current crisis should force academe to re-assess and reform itself--but it likely will not. If not, maybe contributors to the university might re-assess where their money goes and maybe someone else will step up to the plate to reform out-of-control professors. Here are selected passages from the article, but be sure to read all of it to get the full message from an excellent piece.
Academic, Heal Thyself
The New York Times, 03/06/06
By Camille Paglia, Op-Ed Contributor and
University Professor, University of the Arts in Philadelphia
What went wrong at Harvard?
...Larry Summers, a former Treasury secretary, assumed the presidency with a high sense of mission. ...But whatever his good intentions, Mr. Summers often inspired more heat than light. His stellar early career as an economics professor did not prepare him for dealing with an ingrown humanities faculty that has been sunk in political correctness for decades. As president, he had a duty to research the tribal creeds and customs of those he wished to convert. Foolishly thinking plain speech and common sense would suffice, he flunked Academic Anthropology 101.
...(T)he controversy that will inevitably symbolize his presidency was the manufactured outcry early last year over his glancing reference at a conference to possible innate differences between the sexes in aptitude for science and math. The feminist pressure groups rose en masse from their lavishly feathered nests and set up a furious cackle that led to a 218-to-185 vote of no confidence by the Faculty of Arts and Sciences last March.
...Mr. Summers's strategic blunders unfortunately took the spotlight off entrenched political correctness and changed the debate to academic power: who has it, and how should it be exercised?
...It now remains to be seen whether Harvard's Faculty of Arts and Sciences is capable of self-critique. Will its members acknowledge their own insularity and excesses, or will they continue down the path of smug self-congratulation and vanity? Harvard's reputation for disinterested scholarship has been severely gored by the shadowy manipulations of the self-serving cabal who forced Mr. Summers's premature resignation.
...If Harvard cannot correct itself in this crisis, it will signal that academe cannot be trusted to reform itself from within.
Unfortunately, I'm betting that the faculty will only get worse from this "victory." In one divergence from the writer, I don't even want them or trust them to reform and keep power. They've had their chance and it's been too long. Maybe it's time to take away the somewhat phony and over-used "academic freedom" shield and make professors responsible for their words and actions. Maybe it's time to dismantle tenure and make them earn their jobs like we do. If you do a good job, you can come back the next day. If you don't, then you're gone...and, you don't get an extra year and a big pay-off like Chief Ward Churchill did from Colorado.
But, what's the first step and who is willing to take it? Who will have the nerve after this?
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1
Dershowitz is his own man, and doesn't feel obligated to toe a party line. I have many times agreed with him. He is sort of a left-libertarian (like Paglia, perhaps), very smart, and more than a little sure of himself.
He is liberal on the basis of first principles, not because he is just anti-conservative. That's becoming rare these days.
Posted by: Assistant Village Idiot at Monday, March 06 2006 11:15 AM (bfKow)
2
Right. And the NYT is going to review and revamp their editorial processes. Still waiting.
These professors are labeled as radical for a reason. It's one thing to employ radical ideas in seeking out progress and another to be radical in seeking a path to past and present failed social experiments.
The ironic part is that these guys are poking holes in their own boat. Don't they know that?
Posted by: Oyster at Monday, March 06 2006 11:55 AM (YudAC)
3
My take, and some personal observation, is many professors are mostly children with extensive vocabularies.
One wonders where they get their egos. In the "soft" sciences, a mostly sheltered life and not much real experience...but with someone's money and someone's time, they have a doctorate (awarded, please note, by other lefties) and now feel qualified to blather on about damn near ANY subject.
Gad, it must make real professors ill.
Posted by: Tad at Monday, March 06 2006 05:54 PM (aIFaX)
4
yeah, Tad. It would be a travesty of democracy if citizen from across the country found ways to share their political views - even those who aren't political experts. We're lucky it's only college professors so far. Soon it could end up being accountant and psychologists or any shmo who signs up with blogger. Oh wait.
What a lame article. When the whole brouhaha originally arose, there were a number of interesting perspectives: female science professors who felt that Summers' conjecturing (blathering on about damn near ANY subject, as it were) undermined the trials they'd face trying to break into the male-dominated fields of science and math. There were those who felt that the academy should be primarily a place for unbridled thinking (the protection of that "academic shield" Mr. Roper hates) and that Summers shouldn't be taken to task for even crass questions. Regardless, this essay you've linked to hardly offers any real critique or understanding of differing perspectives. Instead, it demeans the arguments of the peeved by suggesting their anger is mere, "entrenched political correctness." They are guilty of "ideological groupthink," we are told, though the faculty split 218-185 in a vote of confidence, hardly the stuff of groupthink. Both sides have a real point in this debate. Paglia foolishly flushes one perspective and you all sing her praises. Hogwash.
Posted by: Mavis Beacon at Monday, March 06 2006 06:20 PM (KzxRH)
5
Mavis, Paglia isn't exactly one of "ours." Most of the arguments and perspectives that you noted were lacking have been presented numerous times by others since Lawrence Summers' "mistake" of saying the truth that men and women come with a different set of tools in academics. There was no need to present them again.
This article addresses who should or should not be trusted to determine the direction of universities. Clearly, to me, it's not the entrenched, self-servinig professors. If someone doesn't wake up, major contributions to universities, if they don't dry up, will be designated primarily for the business schools and athletic departments--which actually accomplish something of value to society and the alumni.
"Academic freedom" doesn't mean what it originally did. Now, it is just a shield to deflect arguments that professors should be teaching their subjects rather than focusing on their politics--almost always left-wing and out of the mainstream. It keeps the professors from admitting and defending their indoctrination efforts. Talk to me about academic freesom after the professors teach the basics, for which they haven't seemed to do a very good job since about the mid-1970's.
The vote represents "group think" when you break it down between departments and find that the humanities vote in concert and the way they are taught to vote--always radical left. The vote shouldn't have even come up, much less be a vote of no-confidence. Only radical, group-think, block voting made that possible. It is a very rare professor who will stand up for what he believes this day if he thinks that it will draw attention from the politically correct departments. The article mentioned that none would speak to the school newspaper for that fear.
It seems to me that most professors couldn't make a living in the outside world if their lives depended on it, so they have to find comfort and dollars within the walls of academe.
Maybe it's time to put "term limits" on professors just like U.S. Presidents and just like we should for those in Congress. Eight years and you're out. Go make a real living for four years and then re-enter the universities--smarter for seeing the reality of the outside world.
Posted by: Woody at Tuesday, March 07 2006 03:41 AM (v5VVJ)
6
When personal politics starts to penetrate academia, the truth suffers. Both right and left are at fault here. The irony of it is that the discipline of economics, Summers' background, has been perverted by right wing ideology, just as much as the humanities have been perverted by left wing ideology.
So where does the truth lie? In many cases, I'm sad to report, science tends to support the right wing position. Yes, there truly are innate differences between humans, and many are genetic in origin. But that doesn't give the right wingers carte blanche to exploit other humans as they have so routinely done down through the ages, and contimue to do.
Respect at an individual level is what is needed, while observing the fascinating and never ending differences between individuals. It's an old saw, but every individual is unique. Put technically, within-group differences are usually much larger than between-group population differences, which are the well spring of mindless prejudice and discrimination.
Posted by: Alan Robinson at Tuesday, March 07 2006 03:46 AM (e8FU3)
7
When I query faculty as to the purpose of the university I am told it is "to create and disseminate knowledge". This being the case then is it not the responsibility of the university (the faculty) to ensure that such knowledge contributes to the ongoing development of the society in which the university resides and for which it is educating the future leaders?
The self-serving attitudes of tenured "children with extensive vocabularies" with no accountability clearly fall well short of this standard. Worse, this abrogation of societal responsibility has resulted in the continuing degradation of "education" - the process of acquiring knowledge and development.
Students, particularly at graduate level, have an expectation that faculty will indeed deliver both knowledge and development. The rapid growth of for profit providers, accredited online providers and inhouse "corporate universities" reflect the migration of value in a university education, a migration fostered by faculty who fail to practice what they teach.
Posted by: Peter Withers at Tuesday, March 07 2006 06:56 AM (DvjCS)
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Mavis, I keep rereading your post and trying to find a way it is not contradictory. Does the president of a university have the right to voice an opinion? If yes, what is the basis for forcing him out on that basis? If no, then where do the other academics derive their permission to speak.
You seem to be saying that it is the job of the academy to protect some ideas from being challenged, so that they may blossom as hothouse flowers.
Side point -- the trials of breaking into male-dominated fields -- you are clearly assuming without sufficient evidence that the popular explanation, that women are being kept down and kept out, is the true one; many educated women have that subjective impression, but evidence for the proposition is proving elusive.
Posted by: Assistant Village Idiot at Tuesday, March 07 2006 11:48 AM (bfKow)
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Well. I was thinking of something clever to say in my own defense, however, is it more than evident that isn't necessary.
BTW, I AM impressed with the thinking and writing abilities of many who've contributed above.
Semper Fidelis
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January 23, 2006
Ford to Cut 25,000 Jobs - Unions Wonder What Happened
Ford Mortor Company just announced that they are being forced to phase out 14 manufacturing plants in the U.S. and trim 25,000-30,000 jobs. This comes on the heels of
General Motors' decision to close 12 facilities and cut 30,000 jobs. Also, last year,
DaimlerChrysler announced that it would begin producing cars in China for sale in the U.S. These announcements don't discuss the additional fallout that will result at parts suppliers from Delphi and Visteon to smaller supporting companies. Taken in combination, the cuts could ultimately result in the loss of hundreds of thousands of jobs in this country. The impact on individuals and families is devastating. What forced these moves and when will they stop?
Liberals will attack these cuts and claim that they result from overpaid executives--the politics of envy. Democrats will blame the Republicans, because they seek power. Union leaders will say that they are shocked and claim that management has failed, because these leaders cared more about short-term wins than long term security for members. Leftists will say that a solution is simply to overpay labor throughout the global economy, because they never had a clue to begin with. But, the average worker is more interested in supporting his family than in looking for scapegoats and phony solutions. He's the one paying the price and wonders who is supposed to be representing him--who is supposed to help him. Well, in short, the people who are casting blame and looking in the wrong direction for answers are really the ones that are failing our workers--and, our nation.
Unions have forced wages and benefits from U.S. manufacturers that far exceed the productivity of workers, and the unions have forced the closings of major industries and companies in our country. The labor dilemma is described in this article and discusses problems such as having to pay 12,000 workers to do nothing and grass cutters getting $65 an hour--not to mention that the Democrats want to use this problem in which they are culpable to call for commissions and more government "entitlements." (I can't stand that term.) Such waste doesn't help workers...it kills companies and results in unemployment.
It's time that the American worker realized that those who claim to care about him and who claim to help him are only making matters worse. Unions, with the help of the Democratic Party, are destroying companies and are costing them jobs. Workers and families are important and deserve better.
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1
Exactly. Unions cause more loss of jobs than so may other factors. It's too bad people don't see this too....one would think, after so many major losses in the past few years, why hasn't there been some MAJOR anti union efforts/campaigns??
Maybe it's time to start one.
Posted by: Raven at Monday, January 23 2006 11:58 PM (T0Ni9)
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The union big wigs love to bring up the CEO's salary, but not their own bloated salaries. And using the union members' dues to finance Democrat campaigns which give the unions even more power is part of the problem. The only jobs it secures is those who work for the union. Notice none of them are out there beating the pavement, looking for work.
I've had opportunities to join a union and emphatically refused. In one case it caused me to lose my job. Tell me what's wrong with THAT picture.
Posted by: Oyster at Tuesday, January 24 2006 12:04 AM (YudAC)
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Part of the problem is the PRODUCTS Ford produces. Various parts are good, but overall things are CRAP!
Case in point, I have a 97 T-Bird with a V-6. Ford stroked the same V6 and put it in their F-150 pickups, but never offered the engine in their cars. I'd like to stroke my V6, but Ford in their infinite stupidity refuses to offer crucial information or better yet, offer a kit to purchase.
I deal with Ford EDI department on purchasing. It is a mess. Ford wastes more money here in a area that should be saving Ford money. Best term I heard it called comes from the movie, "Heartbreak Ridge". This part of Ford is a Cluster F***!
And need I go on about engineering weaknesses that Ford ignores and never puts out a corrective, heavier duty part for?
No wonder Ford is losing market share.
Posted by: PCD at Tuesday, January 24 2006 02:20 AM (hyfzT)
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The unions are, IMO, a HUGE part of the problem, but here's Ford, losing their assets, and spending MILLIONS on *concept* cars and pickups that will NEVER see the market or the street..
Detroit Auto Show (NAIAS) 2006 - Photo Gallery - MSN Autos
Nice rides, now try spending THAT money on stuff that will come to fruition..
Posted by: TexasFred at Tuesday, January 24 2006 08:28 AM (qX3iX)
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One reason unions are hassling WalMart is their dwindling membership. This may speed efforts up, as desperation sets in.
Posted by: LASunsett at Tuesday, January 24 2006 08:58 AM (1gQz+)
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Texas Fred, the concept cars are obligatory investments that come out of R&D and marketing budgets. They are necessary to develop improved products, create consumer interest, and satisfy investors that the company is moving forward. If Ford stayed out of the Detroit Auto Show or had nothing new to show, then their sales would die.
My son flew up to the Detroit Auto Show last week and, by coincidence, just sent me an email with about 150 pictures from that, which took forever to view but which I did in its entirity to be a good dad. From his pictures, the Shelby Mustang 500 looks pretty cool to me.
Posted by: Woody at Tuesday, January 24 2006 09:52 AM (ATPvM)
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You are right on target with this. I wanted to post on this topic at my site, but I've been too busy to spend any length of time at the keys... BUT I do have an anecdote for you.
My neighbor works for Ford and she is sometimes required by her union to be "on call" or something so one or two days a week she goes to the plant and punches in then LEAVES for the rest of the day until it's time to go back and punch out! WTF?
Unions are corrupt through and through. That is the root of the problem. The other part of the problem is that most American consumers are selfish and ignorant and don't know or care how their purchases affect the world around them. The very same union members who complain about people buying KIA's will drive past my locally owned family business to buy at Lowes or Home Depot for a miniscule savings sending money out of our local economy to out of state corporations and putting jobs of people in their own neighborhoods in jeopardy.
Don't get me wrong. I'm all for free trade, but people need to be aware that they get what they pay for and if you only support the big box stores like Wal Mart, Best Buy, Home Depot, and Lowes one day that's all you'll have to choose from and you will regret it.
PS> Every car I've ever bought was an American made GM product and I've been happy with every one of them.
Posted by: Woody (a different one) at Wednesday, January 25 2006 12:51 AM (Lhvge)
8
I remember when I owned a Japanese car and a German car, and my parents were besides themselves. (My dad was in WWII.) But, at that time, the cost to value of American cars was much worse than foreign cars--primarily due to our higher labor costs and management's poor anticipation of changing markets.
American management later stepped up and addressed market desires, but union contracts continued to take value away from the consumer and to take that consumer money to reward unproductive workers. Rather than having $2,000 more in quality features, that money went to pay auto workers much higher wages than similar manufacturing jobs in this country.
Nevertheless, I eventually got rid of my German car and intentionally bought an American one, just as many others did in wanting to buy American. It's too bad that the unions didn't appreciate the U.S. consumers and reciprocate with fewer unreasonable demands of pay for no productivity.
Now, they are killing their employers and have themselves to blame. We saw the same thing in the steel industry. Eastern Airlines was killed by the unions. After the unions took everything the companies had to offer, the companies and their jobs died.
Greed and corruption are the themes at unions--not worker safety or fair wages. It's get what you can while you can and pretend the future doesn't exist.
Posted by: Woody at Wednesday, January 25 2006 02:34 AM (v5VVJ)
9
I live in Iowa. The UAW killed many tractor manufacturers here, now they are killing US Auto Makers. Look at the auto plants in Tennessee that are non-Union. They turn out good products.
Unions have turned into little more than mafia families.
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January 07, 2006
Navy Surrenders to Chaplain - Allows Prayer in Christ's Name
You hear about "heroic" actions of hunger strikes when the dominant media wants to honor some criminal or socialist using that tactic to attract attention to a problem. So, why has the media ignored the latest success story about a hunger strike conducted by a chaplain? Well, maybe he represents the wrong cause for them...Christianity. Here's a follow-up and success story to an earlier post on political correctness in the
military barring prayers "in the name of Christ."
Navy surrenders: Chaplain eating
The Navy chaplain who has gone without food for 18 days in protest of the Navy's policy encouraging "inclusive" prayers at public events says he has received permission to wear his uniform and pray in Jesus' name outside the White House tomorrow and will end his hunger strike by taking communion there.
Lt. Gordon James Klingenschmitt had said he would not eat until President Bush signed an executive order allowing chaplains to pray in public according to their individual faith traditions. Later, he said if the Navy would allow him to wear his uniform in public and pray in Jesus' name he would end his fast. Klingenschmitt told WND this evening he has received a letter from his commanding officer giving him permission to do so.
It's a partial victory in a surprise battle by the military against religious freedom for our soldiers. Now, when will President Bush sign an Executive Order to guarantee this religious tolerance and freedom in the military for all? What's the problem?
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1
Bravo for the Chaplin. Now, if he get's a Captain's Mast we can raise bloody heck.
Besides Woody, what the heck are you doing up at 1:30 in the morning?
Posted by: GM Roper at Saturday, January 07 2006 08:28 PM (0CqNu)
2
Uh, it's almost 4:00 AM here now. I was up reading liberal blogs because they're so boring and I thought that they would put me to sleep. But, I learned that global warming is no longer our biggest problem. Now, it's over-population, which was the biggest problem forty years ago before global cooling became the biggest problem before global warming did. I think the biggest problems are liberals talking about problems.
Posted by: Woody at Saturday, January 07 2006 08:54 PM (v5VVJ)
3
I am glad to hear the good news about the Navy Chaplin. I hope that he continues to have victories with his cause and wins many souls to Jesus.
God Bless.
Posted by: Brian Parker at Sunday, January 08 2006 10:35 AM (j5vIv)
4
I fear the devil will lie in the details, more literally in this case than is usual.
Posted by: civil truth at Sunday, January 08 2006 10:57 AM (2eZsU)
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Since the chaplain's supporters advocate "religious tolerance and freedom," they surely know this tagline does include the soldiers' right to be free from religious influence. Executive Orders are reserved for emergencies and blatant restrictions on rights; everyone's interests must be weighed: the soldier's right to practice religion vs his right to be free from religious influence. Perhaps the larger issue is whether religion should be so pervasive in the first place, as it appears to be. Many of these articles give the impression that religious ceremonies and references to god occur on a regular basis, almost as a general part of military life.
For example, chaplains leading open group prayers before meals is not only intrusive, but unnecessary. In that situtation religious tolerance will have taken a hit. On the other hand, if the group prayers and other problem-causing events occur outside of typical miliary events (realizing the difficulty in defining "typical" when refrencing the military, as compared to other workplaces), where participation is optional, then perhaps political correctness has gone overboard - with the caveat that "optional" means that religion enters the military only during downtime or, when downtime simply doesn't exist, in an area specially chosen for religious purposes. Religious references in the military, public schools, and government buildings is not the standard, therefore the option to exercise religious freedom must not be in the form of refraining from over-exposure to the practices of others exercising that freedom.
It's a shame that missing the point has resulted in everyone wasting time by nitpicking at events where religion is normally a nonissue, such as funerals or jewelry. As a government institution, the military does need to tread carefully, especially considering the highly emotional nature of the job. Maybe the best solution really is to minimize the amount of religious references, because the stories in the papers tell more tales of soldiers offended by religion's presence than its supposed oppression. Otherwise this overblown issue that's been deemed a "problem" might never end - should tattoos of crosses be inked over as well? Should a Jew refrain from explaining what it means to be kosher for fear of being chastised (or worse) for supposedly trying to convert? Unfortunately, those on all sides of this ill-defined issue choose the wrong battles and sides are drawn with shaky lines.
Posted by: Andrea at Sunday, January 08 2006 08:02 PM (DSie/)
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Praise Allah, I can now bow to Mecca three times a day without fear of reprisal! This is a great victory for Islam!
Posted by: Muslim Army Chaplin at Monday, January 09 2006 05:21 AM (n3nEz)
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Chaplin, that is precisely the point.
EACH Chaplin should be able to pray in the faith that he or she was trained and espouses. The troops who listen, should be willing to be equally allowed to pray with the chaplin of their own faith.
All faiths also allow any Chaplin to administer last rites to any troop that is dying. This is a time honored tradition that I have observed in a life time of growing up in the military and having a brother who was an Army Chaplin.
Posted by: GM Roper at Monday, January 09 2006 01:01 PM (0CqNu)
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Andrea, though encouraged, no soldier is required to attend any services. You are barking up the wrong tree.
Posted by: GM Roper at Monday, January 09 2006 01:03 PM (0CqNu)
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There is an old military saying: With bullets flying overhead and bombs going off nearby, there is no such thing as an atheist in a foxhole.
Posted by: GM Roper at Monday, January 09 2006 01:05 PM (0CqNu)
10
Of course they can't be required to attend any services. Surely the prayers and references are conducted, purposely or not, to avoid the notion that they are not required. The point is that any unnecessary reference or group prayer should be set aside.
Atheists are not the only ones who might be offended by references to Christ, such as non-christians, Christians who prefer to keep their spirituality to themselves, not to mention any one, regardless of religious belief, who simply wants to get the job done without religious involvement.
And of course there are atheist in foxholes... any person who claims to have found religion in an emergency wasn't an atheist to begin with... maybe they're just beginning to get vocal now
http://www.atheistfoxholes.org/
Posted by: Andrea at Wednesday, January 11 2006 09:35 AM (xWVQ9)
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Unlike the general population, men at war tend to be deeply religious and participate in their religious beliefs. Having grown up in the military, I know this to be true. It is not, of course, universal. I noticed also, that you chose to say some non-christians may be offended. Why not say some christians may be offended by say a Muslim Chaplin or perhaps a Jewish Chaplin or even a Baptist by a Catholic Chaplin... The military has a long history, for good reason, of allowing people of all faith's the opportunity to practice or not practice a religious exercise.
I've heard Athesists yell out, when angry, injured, flustered etc. "Oh my God." yet, when the stress is down, they are still athesists.
The Atheist in Foxholes is an interesting site, and of course it is true, my comment was directed at the "stress" of the moment and I have seen the "God" word come out of the mouths of Athesists and Agnostics many many times in periods of high stress. Doesn't mean that they stop "being atheist" it means that in periods of high stress, "most" folk turn to the idea of a higher being.
How come it is the Christian that has to always be the tolerant one. Who really, in the fullness of time, in the scope of things, gives a damn about someone being "offended?"
There is no constitutional ban on being offended. I find someone denegrating my faith offensive. Does that give me a right to ask you or anyone else to "shut up." Of course not. I find the idea of illegal combatants in Gitmo, people who either illegally fought us or our allies (from the stand point of being in a legal military organization) being given Koran's highly offensive. Does that mean they can't have them. No, it doesn't because that is not my judgment to make. Do you EQUALLY decry these people being given Koran's with taxpayer dollars offensive? I would really hope so and I'd like to know about the sites where you espouse that idea.
Posted by: gmroper at Wednesday, January 11 2006 01:12 PM (0CqNu)
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I'm not really offended, exactly, that Korans are paid for with my tax dollars, it just pisses me off. My tax money shouldn't be supporting any religion. And I don't mind the crucifix above every doorway of my law school, and the humongous 60 foot one in the middle of campus doesn't creep me out as much as I thought it would. I was, however, kind of offended when Congress screamed "under god" while reciting the pledge during that whole fiasco. Mostly I was irritated because it's just not needed! I, for one, definitely care when people are offended, especially with respect to my own actions. Fortunately most people know that I'm not out to get anyone. But if I didn't mean something to be offensive, and despite being careful someone got upset, oh well. Believe me, I know it's a frustrating world.
I wrote that some non-Christians might be offended because the chaplain in question is Christian. Christianity only appears to be under "attack" because recently, religion has been permitted to enter certain public spheres where it normally has never been allowed. So when people oppose that new presence, it's pretty easy for politicians, pundits and so on to cry out that Christians are held to a higher standard. Christians don't have to be any more tolerant than any other group of people. As the religious majority in the country they are certainly not being persecuted, although with all the rhetoric flying around it's as if the numbers are down to half a percent of the American population. Regardless of whether soldiers are are more religious than other groups, those with authority still do not have the right to subtly - even if unintentionally - pressure everyone to join in. Of course someone is offended by every PC move the military makes. My suggestion was simply to cut back on unofficially endorsed religious practices all together. The soldiers who feel pressure to pray in the manner of the majority (or don't want to at all) shouldn't be placed in an uncomfortable position.
Posted by: Andrea at Thursday, January 12 2006 11:49 AM (DSie/)
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Evangelical Chaplains who insist on praying "in the name of Jesus" at public events at which non-Christians are present (unlike at their worship services where members of their respective congregations are believing Christians) fail to follow St. Paul's admonition: "Give no offense to Jews or to Greeks or to the church of God." (I Corinthians 10: 32) This lack of respect for the religious beliefs of Jews and others does not seem to reflect the attitude and example of Jesus whom these chaplains claim to follow.
Posted by: Tricia at Saturday, January 14 2006 05:43 PM (RCcsI)
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Tricia, one of the problems with using the bible to "prove a point" is that one can also find a point for the opposite effect, often by the same author. "WATCH THOU IN ALL THINGS, ENDURE AFFLICTIONS, DO THE WORK OF AN EVANGELIST-2 Tim 4:5" also from Paul.
In Timothy you will also find: "GOD HATH NOT GIVEN US THE SPIRIT OF FEAR; BUT OF POWER, AND OF LOVE, AND OF A SOUND MIND. BE NOT THOU THEREFORE ASHAMED…OF OUR LORD, NOR OF ME-2 Tim 1:7,8."
I think the problem is, and will continue to be, that too many of us, for whatever reason, believe that we have a right not to be "offended." I have no problem attending a public event in which an Imam or a Rabbi leads the prayer in their particular style. What gives them the right to have a problem if I pray in the name of Jesus. And the answer is, nothing. But we assume under the rubric of being politically correct the injunction should have been written "go forth and offend no one, whisper my name so that your enemies will not know you are there."
PC is madness. Pure and simple madness. Rational thought run amok.
Posted by: GM Roper at Sunday, January 15 2006 01:49 AM (0CqNu)
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Andrea, you have made some good points. But I have to ask you. If you feel you have the right to fight for freedom from others religious practice, then why in the world do you think that a religious person should should not fight for their right for freedom of their religious practices? When someone is praying to their higher being of their choice, why say anything about it? Especially when you do not believe. Are your feet chained to the place of where the prayer is occuring? Are your ears bound to the place of prayer? NO! There are a million situations that you can be in where you are going to be offended. In any situation, whether it be in a crowded place with people praying, smokers, drinkers, profanity users or anything you find offensive, simply remove yourself from the situation either body or simply mind.
Posted by: Wendy at Thursday, February 02 2006 07:21 AM (xkwm7)
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As I was looking for a prayer site to request prayer for my nephew who is in the Navy in Iraq, I came upon this site.......While reading the negative comments I am very happy that God my Father is not limited by those who do not believe in Him.....He only desires an intimate relationship with us. It is really their loss for not seeking God with all their whole hearts. He is real.....and desires to show Himself strong in the behalf of all those who love and trust in Him. There is so much more to God than we usually hear people exspouse...God tells us that His people perish for lack of knowledge, so if you are struggling, seek God, pray to Him and He will answer......Religion, mens tradition, God is not about those things But.......It is about Intimacy with an all powerful, loving God. He is Just when justice is called for but He also is merciful as the word of God tells us His mercy is new every morning. God is love but lets us choose to whom we serve.....not believing in Him doesn't make Him any less real, And who truely can stop us from praying.....can they read our minds, can they hook us up to a machine to tell them what our thoughts are.....Unity is the last prayer Jesus prayed before going to the Father for us....Let us all who believe in God , who have an intimate relationship with Him , pray blessings on those who do not believe, as God instructs us to....that their eyes would see the Goodness of God, that He would draw them with cords and bands of Love. Our enemy is not those who do not believe but the one who only comes to kill, steal and distroy, satan himself, who God tells us has the unbeliever blinded.
Oh merciful God , our Lord and savior unblind the eyes of those who do not believe, enlighten the eyes of their understanding that they would know you and see the Goodness of You. Bless them to be a blessing, to raise up the name of Jesus
IN Jesus name we pray....Amen
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